Diplomacy

[Jayne]

Hopefully I'm going to play tomorrow evening around 1900GMT. I think it's quite possible that one of our neighbours has mapmaking and may land a unit near us soon. If I see an enemy during play, I will probably stop for further discussion, but sometimes an AI shows up and doesn't give you chance to save the game.

So, I need a bit of discussion on what we want to do in that circumstances. Do we exchange techs, demand tribute?

 

[duke o' york]

Depends what kind of unit it is and where it is. If it's a warrior or an explorer and they are far from our cities then we should throw caution to the wind and demand tribute, but if they choose to send a big gang of elephants in our direction then we will need to be more careful.

I like your extensive use of the queen smiley though.

 

[Jayne]

Originally posted by duke o' york

I like your extensive use of the queen smiley though.

May as well use it whilst I can!! I wanted it in my sig, but couldn't get it to work.

 

[GaryNemo]

I imagine that at this point, we can exchange tech. We have what we needed immediately, and are going to need them all eventually anyway. But if so, what tech shall we give away? Whatever the AI wants? Warrior Code? Monarchy? Laws?

Julius Caesar thought a good time to agree to a Cease Fire is: when their units were nearer to our assets then our own.

 

[Jayne]

So, it would be fair to say we could swap some techs, but try not to give them useful stuff like Bronze Working (because of Colossus) and anything that may mean they get to Philosphy before us?

 

[Zwelgje]

Give them the techs that will not make them stronger.
About your sig: if you type :queen*: without the * into your sig field it should work!

 

[MonkE]

I would give away anything but WC or BW. But I wouldn't want anything but Map Making or techs that lead to our immediate goals (Currency, Trade, Mysticism -- MAYBE Horseback Riding/Polythesm if we're looking toward Monotheism for Mike's Chapel). If we take something else, it takes longer to research our chosen tech. I think it's about 10 beakers extra per tech that we take. So I wouldn't take Masonry now, for example.

Demanding tribute seems to work best if the AI is met by a strong unit that could win an immediate battle.

 

[mordhiem]

As the newly appointed NUF Chief of Staff, I feel it is my duty to stand at the back of all senate meetings and start boisterous pro-war chanting. I shall commence here...

[chants]
War! War! War!
What do we want?
War!
When do we want it?
Soonish!
Who shall we kill?
Inconsequential!
War! War! War!
[/chant]

 

[Zwelgje]

People,
I'm bringing this thread back to the top to draw your attention to it, now is the time to let our queen know what to do when we encounter another civ.

Shall we demand tribute?
Shall we exchange maps?
Shall we exchange techs?

Are we wiling to avoid war by giving money or techs?
And, under which circumstances?

Anyway, let your opinion be heard and post your ideas, I will try to summarize all your opinions for our queen monday evening (European time).

If the people who posted above have a different opinion now, feel free to post again or edit your post.


Another responsibility of the foreign advisor: exploration.
For this I would like to ask the science advisor to put mapmaking in the research queue as soon as possible. (right after trade and philosophy would be nice. )

 

[Octavian X]

I have to agree that map making needs to be researched soon. News that someone's building the lighthouse means that there are triremes out there. However, I feel that it is very unlikely that we'll meet a trireme that crossed an ocean any time soon.

I would in favor of demanding tribute. They won't know we're here in the first place. I seriously doubt that an AI would send a huge stack of triemes and elephants before we've meet. Lastly, if the trireme attacks a city, it won't really matter, since it can't capture it.

 

[Jayne]

Originally posted by Octavian X
I have to agree that map making needs to be researched soon. News that someone's building the lighthouse means that there are triremes out there. However, I feel that it is very unlikely that we'll meet a trireme that crossed an ocean any time soon.

The lighthouse is being built by the Vikings, and we know that the northern peninsula of our isloand is nearer Uppsala than our own cities. The Vikings don't need to cross an 'ocean' to get to us, they are on the next island which we can see some of. It's quite feasible that they will stumble upon us soon.

 

[Zwelgje]

Well said Jayne.
They've got mapmaking (otherwise no Lighthouse) and they are around the corner....

 

[duke o' york]

Originally posted by Octavian X
However, I feel that it is very unlikely that we'll meet a trireme that crossed an ocean any time soon.

The Civ 2 AI cheats though, and never loses a trireme at sea, regardless of where they are travelling between. I'd like to demand some tribute from any AI that we meet, but maybe the disbanding to achieve the Colossus may have hurt our power rating a bit.

 

[funxus]

If they come visit us, I wouldn't demand tribute unless I want war, because I don'tthink they'll pay anything if we haven't discovered them yet. I neither think going to war is a very good idea now, because we can't visit them witout mapmaking and we don't really have an army to attack them with yet, so it's better to wait. I also think swithching maps is good, because I think we'll gain more from it then they will, or at least we can use the knowledge better.

 

[Leowind]

The only thing about trading maps is that, in my experience, it takes so much to get them to a point to be willing to do it (I do play on MPE, in which the AI tends to be less cooperative with the human than in Classic). I rarely try to trade maps because I usually find I have to give a bunch of stuff away to do it, which makes it it a bad trade IMHO. If we are met by small explorer-type unit, we can certainly demand tribute. Even if it results in war, it is very unlikely there will be any actual fighting for several turns; time enough to either build an army or make peace. Trading techs is almost always useful, as long as we don't give away anything important or too useful for them. (I wouldn't give away Monarchy at this point). It would be nice to get Map Making if we can. If we are met or find a strong force, do what we can to avoid war without giving away too much.

 

[MonkE]

Leowind's points are well taken. We should endeavor to meet any exploration party with strong force. This "impresses" the AI and puts us in an advantageous negotiating position. If we are successful with this, we should trade for desired tech as discussed above. Then demand tribute. Don't sign any treaty and demand withdrawal of troops.

The best result of this is desired tech, extra gold and removal of the explorers.

But even war isn't so bad. We get to eliminate the explorers, and then the AI will drain its economy building units. At this stage of the game, the AI isn't likely to send a strong enough force (at once) to trouble us much. Also, we then have a perfect right to go over there and take some booty!

In any event, let's keep our reputation spotless (for now ).

 

[Zwelgje]

Ok, this is my summary:
Trade techs and maps if encountering an enemy civ with a weak unit, demand gold as well if encountering an enemy civ with a strong unit (with this units I mean, our unit is strong or our unit is weak).
Don't give away monarchy, bronze working or warrior code, we don't want them to become stronger and wiser.
I've seen nothing about giving gold to avoid war as most seem to like war and see benefits, so never give gold.
That should be it then.
I'll post this too in the what to do next turn thread!

 

[duke o' york]

In my experience it will usually require about three techs to get an AI civ to trade maps with you if they consider themselves on the same footing as you. Bear in mind that the AI will say which tech they want when offering to trade and so we'll get the chance to refuse early if it's Monarchy or something worthwhile. I don't remember the AI asking for Monarchy in any of my games but maybe they're a bit smarter on PC. I'm afraid it's been so long I can't remember any of the specifics of Classic and Princess Lucy seems to know more than me.
I should also point out that we can't order their troops to leave our territory unless they're in our city radius. If, as I believe they would, and will, the AI land in the swamps to the north, they will try to found a city there and then send exploring units down. We should be ready for this, hopefully with our own cities up there so they have nowhere to settle.

 

[MonkE]

Since our explorers have withdrawn from the northern outlands, the Vikings may have already done this.

 

[Zwelgje]

If they've got triremes there is a chance they've settled the northern part of our continent. This only means that if they declare war on us we've got a few extra cities in several turns.