Diplomacy

[SalmonSoil]

One thing I am particularly excited about for civ 5 is diplomacy.
City states seem great, as do research agreements and the removal of tech trading and religion. But what I find best is the way relations are now based around land. Purchasing land will cause other leaders to dislike you, as will moving troops near their borders. In history relations between nations have always been based mostly around actual power and land and I like the step in that direction.
Anyway, anyone else excited or angry at this?

 

[DanX2007]

I'm looking forward to most of the changes. The only thing that disappoints me is the lack of foreign trade routes between two cities (if I read 2k Greg's post correctly) As well as religion being toned down.

But I like the fact that they got rid of tech trading. I've always felt the AI doesn't know the worth of some techs and would give them away freely. I've always turned off tech trading/brokering. And two countries working together to discover something sounds more believable than, "teach me fission and I'll teach you rockets" And you instantly know everything.

 

[Thyrwyn]

I especially like the fact that each civ and city state only ever get one vote in the UN - diplomatic wins will really mean something and require significant (meaningful) effort. The changes sound really promising, hopefully the implementation will live up to my expectations

 

[Calouste]

I especially like the fact that each civ and city state only ever get one vote in the UN - diplomatic wins will really mean something and require significant (meaningful) effort. The changes sound really promising, hopefully the implementation will live up to my expectations

What I like about that is that it gives the AI civs more room to just play to win. In Civ4, AI civs sometimes had to vote against their own interest otherwise you could never win a Diplomatic Victory, except with vassals. In Civ5, the city states are the dummies, but every other main civ will probably vote against you. No need to put any logic into the AI except the stuff that makes them want to win. They can just behave like the other players in a multi player game.

I'm also glad they got rid of tech trading and brokering, and I also hope they got rid of bonusses for being the first to research a tech. Just being able to use that tech before anyone else should be enough of a reward. I guess it was needed in Civ4, once they decide to found religions with certains techs, to add bonusses to other techs to make other tech paths more balanced, but in the end at higher levels a lot of the game now revolves around getting to Liberalism first.

 

[SalmonSoil]

Also I would love to see more diplomacy revolving around nukes. Then my Coldwaresque games will be complete (City states being the little banana republics me and other superpower swap aroun).
Like, maybe if they AI didn't use all it's nukes the moment they declare war on someone, unless that person also has nukes.

 

[PieceOfMind]

A lot of the options at the diplomacy table seem to be pretty much the same as before. The AI running the leaders might be quite different however.

Also, it looks like diplo modifiers will be hidden now, and you're instead supposed to figure it out from their animations and expressions. I doubt that would work very well, so I'm hoping/expecting a modder will add the visible modifiers back in before long.

I do like the change of making diplomacy not mostly based on religion like it was in civ4.

 

[StStutter]

In civ 4, I found the major problem with the diplomacy was the modifiers imposed on AIs which were not imposed on humans. It led to the player making meaningful decisions and the AI making arbitrary ones based on civics etc. Yes this is realistic, but it makes for a lopsided diplomatic system.

I think the biggest change going in to civ 5 will be the addition of city states. The AI will now make meaningful decisions which will help it win while maintaining some realistic diplomacy implemented by the city states' requests, which will apply to both human and AI.

 

[D712]

Im just hoping that wars wont be so dragged out with the AI this time. They should be able to realize that losing cities is worse than loosing a few units. And I hope that it will be easier to make friends with them than it was to becone enemies. It used to take about three hundred years to get over war with the AI. Even in history countries got over war better than that.

 

[Schuesseled]

also doesn't take 100 years to walk down a road from one city to another in real life, but it works better for gameplay. Having a civ be all buddy with you 1 turn after you finished razing all thier border cities, is a terrible idea in gameplay turns.

 

[D712]

also doesn't take 100 years to walk down a road from one city to another in real life, but it works better for gameplay. Having a civ be all buddy with you 1 turn after you finished razing all thier border cities, is a terrible idea in gameplay turns.

But having them pissed at you forever is stupid. They made it nearly impossible tp be friends after a war.

 

[Aramel]

Im just hoping that wars wont be so dragged out with the AI this time. They should be able to realize that losing cities is worse than loosing a few units. And I hope that it will be easier to make friends with them than it was to becone enemies. It used to take about three hundred years to get over war with the AI. Even in history countries got over war better than that.

I hope, instead of being based on wars, it is based more on what you did. Like if you declared war on them, but never took any of their cities, they won't be as mad at you afterward as they would if you end up occupying half their empire.

 

[Gamemaster77]

A lot of the options at the diplomacy table seem to be pretty much the same as before. The AI running the leaders might be quite different however.

Also, it looks like diplo modifiers will be hidden now, and you're instead supposed to figure it out from their animations and expressions. I doubt that would work very well, so I'm hoping/expecting a modder will add the visible modifiers back in before long.

I do like the change of making diplomacy not mostly based on religion like it was in civ4.

I'm guessing it will be more like civ3 where it tells you if their happy, annoyed, etc with you but doesn't tell you why.

 

[bjbrains]

I'm guessing it will be more like civ3 where it tells you if their happy, annoyed, etc with you but doesn't tell you why.

This. We've seen the diplomacy screen and it does tell you the attitude of the other leaders. Just not the numerical values.