Diplomats and Spies
- Thread starter Argetnyx
- Start date
1) Propaganda is useful in, but not an essential part of, modern warfare.
2) Diplomacy/spying on the scale of Civ3 is very expensive in the real world. You may not realize how expensive, because the costs are buried in multiple budgets, and not all the cost is purely monetary.
3) Diplomacy in Civ is abstracted, just like trade, warfare, etc. The easiest way to indicate the "cost" is to put it in "gold".
4) Game balance: playtesting showed that if it was much cheaper, human players would exploit it way beyond what the AI can do.
2) Diplomacy/spying on the scale of Civ3 is very expensive in the real world. You may not realize how expensive, because the costs are buried in multiple budgets, and not all the cost is purely monetary.
3) Diplomacy in Civ is abstracted, just like trade, warfare, etc. The easiest way to indicate the "cost" is to put it in "gold".
4) Game balance: playtesting showed that if it was much cheaper, human players would exploit it way beyond what the AI can do.
absolute zer0
Chieftain
I've found that in civ3 Propaganda is a waste of money. I've had overwhelming culture and they still won't overthrow their governor. I think that investigate city and sabotage production are a lot more cost effective.
Sweetchuck
King
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2006
- Messages
- 649
Can I tangent this thread?
I "caught" the AI planting a spy on me. I thought I'd get some option pop-up, but nothing. Could I have DOW'd them for good reason (ie: no war weariness)? It didn't appear that way, but just curious.
I "caught" the AI planting a spy on me. I thought I'd get some option pop-up, but nothing. Could I have DOW'd them for good reason (ie: no war weariness)? It didn't appear that way, but just curious.
againsttheflow
unpolitically uncorrect
A great deal of the propaganda of the day was directed at getting one's own citizens to rally for the war cause. Propaganda as the sole means of gaining a city is pretty unrealistic in most cases in RL, the Nazi's, for example, didn't exactly advertise their way into Paris. That said, if it were a little lower I might actually use it. Unrealistically. Like I just said. Yes.
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
I don't think so. I think that's only when you catch the spy in the act of doing something.
@againsttheflow: Propaganda was used in an attempt to undermine the confidence of enemies, such as Japan's hilarious "US troops are raping your women while you're fighting us" propaganda fliers. Should be a way of using that type of propaganda in-game.
againsttheflow
unpolitically uncorrect
Right, agreed on that sentiment though to the side exactly how effective was this method of propaganda? My point being lowering the cost would not increase realism because of the way propaganda is implemented.
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
Considering Japan got nuked, not terribly. I do believe there are situations were propaganda has been extremely effective though, particularly CIA operations during the Cold War. And I agree with your assessment in-game.
A great deal of the propaganda of the day was directed at getting one's own citizens to rally for the war cause. Propaganda as the sole means of gaining a city is pretty unrealistic in most cases in RL, the Nazi's, for example, didn't exactly advertise their way into Paris. That said, if it were a little lower I might actually use it. Unrealistically. Like I just said. Yes.
Nazi propaganda made the French less willing to resist, for they thought the German military was much stronger than it really was.
Also, the Soviets used propaganda to make the Polish rise against the German occupiers in 1944-1945
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
I think French stupidity made the French less willing to resist. Particularly the leadership. France could have WON, for Christ's sake. Not just held out, but won.
And the Poles were pretty stupid for believing Soviet prop too. Still, both support the argument for a better prop system.
as for the French, it was a mixture of propaganda, leadership, and surprise that led to their defeat. If Hitler was replaced say, around 1941, the Germans could have won.
the Poles did believe it, it was a horrible defeat for them, but it also weakened the Germans, which was what the Soviets wanted, and is also the point of propaganda, to rally unhappy citizens to revolt against the ruling leader
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
Actually, Germany could never win WWII, not if it started in 1939, but that's a discussion for the history forum.
wish i could deny your statement, but your right about the history forum...
propaganda isnt just used on your enemies, governments use propaganda to make the citizens more content with any war actions, and also to help recruit more troops.
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