Disappearing Artillery

shl7070

Warlord
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
181
I had a case when I ordered a stack that is composed of artillery and other units (all fast units-Tanks, cavs, armies) to automove towards it's target.

On one of the turns it disappeared from the map and on AI's turn it reappeared on it's previous location and was destroyed. This forced me to reload the entire war and move stack of 25 units manually.

Did this thing happened to anyone?
 
I had a case when I ordered a stack that is composed of artillery and other units (all fast units-Tanks, cavs, armies) to automove towards it's target.

On one of the turns it disappeared from the map and on AI's turn it reappeared on it's previous location and was destroyed. This forced me to reload the entire war and move stack of 25 units manually.

Did this thing happened to anyone?

The AI is learning new tricks :D
 
I had a case when I ordered a stack that is composed of artillery and other units (all fast units-Tanks, cavs, armies) to automove towards it's target.

On one of the turns it disappeared from the map and on AI's turn it reappeared on it's previous location and was destroyed. This forced me to reload the entire war and move stack of 25 units manually.

Did this thing happened to anyone?

A lot of things happens for me i don't understand. Like AI building ICBMs without any strategic recource:D
 
A lot of things happens for me i don't understand. Like AI building ICBMs without any strategic recource:D
StratRes are not needed to complete any unit, Wonder, building, or tile-improvement -- only to begin them. Lanzelot wrote an article about this. So even if you pillage an AICiv's U235-tiles after war has broken out, you won't prevent it from finishing an ICBM or TacNuke that it started before the DoW.

And even if an AICiv has no U235 hooked within its territory, that doesn't stop it from importing some. On larger maps, you have no real way of knowing who is selling what to whom. The only game-mechanics (that I know of) that the human player can use to enforce a 'non-proliferation' policy are
  1. to control every single U235 tile on the map -- which becomes increasingly difficult with increasing map-size, especially given the high exhaustion-probability
  2. to disrupt AI-AI trade using Embargoes, or MAs -- preferably only against the potential U235-exporters (i.e. those AICivs with >1 U235-tile inside their borders), which should maximise the number of potential partners remaining for your own trades
But again, neither of those measures will be effective, if the target AICiv(s) have already begun an ICBM- or TacNuke-build prior to implementation of your policy.
 
StratRes are not needed to complete any unit, Wonder, building, or tile-improvement -- only to begin them. Lanzelot wrote an article about this. So even if you pillage an AICiv's U235-tiles after war has broken out, you won't prevent it from finishing an ICBM or TacNuke that it started before the DoW.

That's valid. But after building 1 ICBM, they start building another without any strategic resource neither other opponents have it. I attached the map, where i saw these things happen.
 

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I had a case when I ordered a stack that is composed of artillery and other units (all fast units-Tanks, cavs, armies) to automove towards it's target.

On one of the turns it disappeared from the map and on AI's turn it reappeared on it's previous location and was destroyed. This forced me to reload the entire war and move stack of 25 units manually.

Did this thing happened to anyone?
Sounds like a (graphical) glitch to me, but it's difficult to tell what actually happened: you've given no specifics about what you were doing, so some more details might be helpful. Some questions that occurred to me:
  • Are you playing the base-game, or a mod?
  • Did you use 'J(/X)' or 'Ctrl-J(/X)'?
  • How far did you tell your stack to move?
  • From where? To where?
  • Over what kind of terrain?
  • How far did it get before this happened?
  • Did the Arty disappear then reappear, or the whole stack?
  • Was just the Arty destroyed, or the whole stack?
From your description, this could also be an oversight on your part, e.g. if you accidentally used 'Ctrl-J' on the Arty but then 'J' on the fast-attackers. You might not have noticed initially, e.g. while the whole stack was using your rails to get to/across your borders, but 1-2T after the stack crossed into enemy territory, the guns would have started to fall behind (rather than going 'backwards' as such).

Do you have a savegame you can post?
 
One could disconnect all uranium. Than it cannot exhaust.
Not really my point. And besides, if you've amassed sufficient military power-projection to be able to
  1. Disconnect every single U235 tile on a Huge Continents- or Archi-map
  2. Survive any resulting wars against however many AI opponents are left on the map in the Nuclear Age (probably won't be 31 anymore, but probably will be >10)
  3. Keep them all disconnected afterwards (without using the resource-blocking-fortified-Explorer exploit)
... then someone else building an ICBM -- or even 2 -- is probably not really a major concern... :lol:
 
Not really my point. And besides, if you've amassed sufficient military power-projection to be able to
  1. Disconnect every single U235 tile on a Huge Continents- or Archi-map
  2. Survive any resulting wars against however many AI opponents are left on the map in the Nuclear Age (probably won't be 31 anymore, but probably will be >10)
  3. Keep them all disconnected afterwards (without using the resource-blocking-fortified-Explorer exploit)
... then someone else building an ICBM -- or even 2 -- is probably not really a major concern... :lol:

Not really on topic, but i find really funny in a good way, that you use Uranium Isotope 235 which is usually used alone for reaction or in conjunction with Uranium 238 to make a plutonium 239 which is also used in reactors. =) CIV doesn't state Isotope used in game, or it does but i overlooked?
 
Not really on topic, but i find really funny in a good way, that you use Uranium Isotope 235 which is usually used alone for reaction or in conjunction with Uranium 238 to make a plutonium 239 which is also used in reactors. =) CIV doesn't state Isotope used in game, or it does but i overlooked?

What exactly is it that you find funny there, namek0? :)
 
Sounds like a (graphical) glitch to me, but it's difficult to tell what actually happened: you've given no specifics about what you were doing, so some more details might be helpful. Some questions that occurred to me:
  • Are you playing the base-game, or a mod?
  • Did you use 'J(/X)' or 'Ctrl-J(/X)'?
  • How far did you tell your stack to move?
  • From where? To where?
  • Over what kind of terrain?
  • How far did it get before this happened?
  • Did the Arty disappear then reappear, or the whole stack?
  • Was just the Arty destroyed, or the whole stack?
From your description, this could also be an oversight on your part, e.g. if you accidentally used 'Ctrl-J' on the Arty but then 'J' on the fast-attackers. You might not have noticed initially, e.g. while the whole stack was using your rails to get to/across your borders, but 1-2T after the stack crossed into enemy territory, the guns would have started to fall behind (rather than going 'backwards' as such).

Do you have a savegame you can post?

I used stack move command icon on lower right of the screen while an arty unit was selected.

*The game is C3C base game, no mods

*The stack was ordered to move 2 tiles, from a razed city to another city in order to attack. The whole thing happened overseas entirely on enemy territory.

*The stack moved correctly in the first turn but on the second turned that happened.

*only the arty disappeared and that happened during automove phase.

The nearest save is before the invasion, attached. The stack was landed near Hlobane, razed it while being reinforced by the arty in Persepolis, which was embarked at Sao Paulo and Rio Janero in additional transports, then marched 2 tiles towards Zimbabwe. The initial invasion force is where the Cruiser is. The disappearance happened during the march.
 
That's valid. But after building 1 ICBM, they start building another without any strategic resource neither other opponents have it. I attached the map, where i saw these things happen.

None of the AIs has any ICBMs or tactical nukes and no one is building any. (I used the spies to check every city on the map.)

And I would be very surprised indeed: in 13 years of Civ3, I have never seen an AI build a unit for which it did not have the required resources. You must have overlooked something.
 
That tjs282 adds sciency taste to the game =)
Not sciency -- just lazy.

Can't be bothered typing out 'Uranium' each time (my fingers get tired ;) ), but 'U' on its own might not be obvious (yeah, like 'U235' is sooo much clearer... :lol: ). Of course, technically it should be ^235 U or U-235 -- but CFC can't do superscript-text, and hitting the hyphen would be one extra key-press :cry:

And no, CivIII doesn't specify which isotope is meant, but I thought U-235 was the more commonly occurring form in nature. But now I double-check, I see that Wikipedia says otherwise... :blush:

So I just learned something -- (let the record reflect) I will henceforth refer to U238-tiles instead... :p
 
Roundman said:
I've seen the AI blitz with Cavalry and Tanks, even though neither of those units are supposed to be able to attack twice in one turn.
The KI is allways cheating, but Tank, Panzer and Modern Armor have got the blitz attack in unmodded game, and so does the russian Cossack. ;)
 
None of the AIs has any ICBMs or tactical nukes and no one is building any. (I used the spies to check every city on the map.)

And I would be very surprised indeed: in 13 years of Civ3, I have never seen an AI build a unit for which it did not have the required resources. You must have overlooked something.

Yes, i might overlooked. But i knew that none of them was building nukes at that date, just in that particular game. I used spies to check that too.
 
Not sciency -- just lazy.

Oh, OK:) It doesn't really matter what isotope you use, while we all understand:) By the way, pure Uranium-238 or 235 exists in very very small amounts in nature. Like all metals on the earth. Extraction and purification has to be done in all cases, just depends on how pure it has to be for particular purpose:) By pure i mean > 99%.
 
I used stack move command icon on lower right of the screen while an arty unit was selected.

*The game is C3C base game, no mods

*The stack was ordered to move 2 tiles, from a razed city to another city in order to attack. The whole thing happened overseas entirely on enemy territory.

*The stack moved correctly in the first turn but on the second turned that happened.

*only the arty disappeared and that happened during automove phase.

The nearest save is before the invasion, attached. The stack was landed near Hlobane, razed it while being reinforced by the arty in Persepolis, which was embarked at Sao Paulo and Rio Janero in additional transports, then marched 2 tiles towards Zimbabwe. The initial invasion force is where the Cruiser is. The disappearance happened during the march.
OK I downloaded your save and played a couple of turns -- admittedly not very efficiently, and I just hit 'ENTER' for all the build- and research-orders back in your homeland, fortifying anything that got built unless I needed it. I was unable to duplicate your disappearing Arty (although on the third reload, I did get awarded an SGL for AtomicTheory -- I built UniSuff, just for fun!).

Some saves are attached. First I landed your Cruiser-escorted stacks on the Tobacca-Hill south of Hlobane. With hindsight, this was not the most sensible place -- the Hills NW would have been better.

On the next turn, all the Arty was fired at Hlobane, redlining nearly everything in it. All Tanks were sent in immediately afterwards, killing the defenders -- the last one was promoted, and it razed the city. This is what I mean by 'inefficient' -- had I landed the Tanks directly adjacent to the city, I could have used half of them twice. Still, the Zulus then threw a lot of Rifles and LBMs (i.e. A=4 units) at the tank-stack outside Hlobane's ruins, and promoted each one of them (2 victories in the same turn).

The injured Elite-Tanks were then all retreated back under the 14-HP Cav-Army, which was left fortified in place. Two Arty were fired at a passing Galleon, redlining it, and the Cruiser then sank it (this was just bloodymindedness on my part!). A Transport then unloaded another 4 Arty onto the Tobacco-Hill.

The 13-HP Army, 2 vTanks, and the unfired Arty (10?) were ordered to stack-move 3tiles towards the Hill SW of Zimbabwe. THIS ORDER GOT INTERRUPTED DURING THE SECOND TURN, AND WHEN I USED THE STACK-MOVE ICON AGAIN, THE ARTY GOT LEFT BEHIND -- BECAUSE (I didn't realise) THEY HAD ALREADY USED THEIR MP.

At first I though that the stack had stopped moving because there had been a Zulu unit on the Hill, but I reloaded (twice, because on the first reload I forgot to unfortify the 13-HP Army before I ordered the 1st stack-move), and the same thing happened -- the stack stopped outside Zimbabwe. When I sent the 2nd stack (including the 14HP-Army, the Arty and the injured Elite Tanks) the same way -- it also stopped outside Zimbabwe, even though the first stack was already occupying the Hill.

So I checked your Game Preferences, and found what might be the 'problem'. You have 'Cancel orders for enemy unit' selected -- which means that stack-moves will get stopped when a stack meets an enemy -- including enemies fortifed in cities.

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I am guessing that you might have done something similar to my first attempt -- tried to stack-move, and then did it again after the move-interrupt, leaving your guns unprotected. All Units are 'deleted' from one tile and 'redrawn' during moves, so the guns might have 'vanished' briefly as the Army moved onto the Hill, but they had actually got left behind...
 

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