Discussion-Labour Policies. How would you like them to work?

[Aussie_Lurker]

As I have said elsewhere, I'm quite keen to see a new Slot-in most governments-for labour policies, so I was wondering what kind of labour civics would you guys like to see, & what kind of abilities should they grant?

I am largely deriving my thoughts from Civilization 4, so my feelings are:

Slavery: Boosts Gold or Production (not sure which) from Mines and Plantations. Also, should grant Builders a watered down version of the China/Aztec Ability-namely using Builders to build Districts and/or Wonders quicker......but maybe at the cost of 2 charges each. As a downside, it might cost 1 housing or amenity.

Serfdom: Already in the game, but I might like to see it grant either +1 food from Farms & Pastures *or* double the housing value of farms & pastures.

Caste System: Bonus Great People Points from worked districts.....not sure if there should be any other abilities for it.

I'd not go with Emancipation as a Policy. I'd rather have at least two other Labour Policies.

Indentured: +1 Production from Barracks, Workshops.....and maybe also from Quarries & Pastures.

Organized: +1 Production from Factories, Power Stations & Mines. Maybe also +1 Housing *or* Amenities from Industrial Zone Buildings. Increased Maintenance costs for Industrial Zone Buildings.

Anyone else think of anything else.....or do you have better ideas for the ones I've listed? I'd love to hear .

Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Sostratus]

On the premise that we need a shake up in our policy slots, I completely agree. I think Economic policy slots are just too OP, and encompass too much. They will never balance the governments (And big ben/ adam smith) until they start rebalancing that. I would love to see a fracturing and shifting of some of those policies.
Since many of us probably run a builder-related policy most of the game, splitting current economics into something like

1. Internal development (district adjacency/yield, wonder boosts)
2. Civilian unit policies (builders, settlers) and specialists (who desperately need something)
3. Trade (move these into diplomatic, due to international focus)

Wouldn't be so bad.
#2 could be merged into labor. Or whatever you want to call it- if we go by Civ4, maybe it also takes on the role of government-type civics as a way to further flesh out the actual way your "Australian Oligarchy" runs vs "Kongolese Oligarchy."
That way we can start getting more nuance than the military vs economic trade off we have now. There are too many military policies for the cards we have available right now. Then the ideologies could be more focused like:

• fascism "military and government"
• communism "government and economy"
• democracy "economy and diplo (trade)"

Obviously they would all have a slot in most everything, maybe no still military for Democracy. And so forth for some of the other tiers. I digress. Any how.

To your post, here's some spitball ideas:
Slavery: +50% yield from chopping and harvesting. Or, cities over size (say, 4) can levy 2 citizens into a builder.
Serfdom: Perhaps +1 move, +1 charge for builders; they can move after building. (To build more!)
Caste System: I really like the GPP/districts idea!

Universal Suffrage: +2 yield, (and +1 food?) per specialist.
Public Schools: similar to macedonian barracks, small science gain upon building a worker or settler.
Environmentalism: +1 production to woods/jungles. -1 production from mines/quarries.
Bureaucracy: +1 science, culture on each improved tile in the capital (I reject your width for height!) (would love to see the Civ4 +% hammers/gold return as well)
Pioneers: building settlers doesn't reduce population (a mid game card)
Reconstruction: Repairing improvements costs no movement.

And of course, keeping our wonderful cards that buff builder production/charges and settler production. One big constraint is that we can swap cards a lot, so a 'whipping' type abilities might need to be tied to a government, not a policy. (Plus early growth is really really fast, it'd be hard to balance)

Builders are just such a big production sink that whenever you have land to improve (which is most of the game,) you should be running the builder policy. I would like something to add more flavor to just how you intend to use builders.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

On the premise that we need a shake up in our policy slots, I completely agree. I think Economic policy slots are just too OP, and encompass too much. They will never balance the governments (And big ben/ adam smith) until they start rebalancing that. I would love to see a fracturing and shifting of some of those policies.
Since many of us probably run a builder-related policy most of the game, splitting current economics into something like

1. Internal development (district adjacency/yield, wonder boosts)
2. Civilian unit policies (builders, settlers) and specialists (who desperately need something)
3. Trade (move these into diplomatic, due to international focus)

Wouldn't be so bad.
#2 could be merged into labor. Or whatever you want to call it- if we go by Civ4, maybe it also takes on the role of government-type civics as a way to further flesh out the actual way your "Australian Oligarchy" runs vs "Kongolese Oligarchy."
That way we can start getting more nuance than the military vs economic trade off we have now. There are too many military policies for the cards we have available right now. Then the ideologies could be more focused like:

• fascism "military and government"
• communism "government and economy"
• democracy "economy and diplo (trade)"

Obviously they would all have a slot in most everything, maybe no still military for Democracy. And so forth for some of the other tiers. I digress. Any how.

To your post, here's some spitball ideas:
Slavery: +50% yield from chopping and harvesting. Or, cities over size (say, 4) can levy 2 citizens into a builder.
Serfdom: Perhaps +1 move, +1 charge for builders; they can move after building. (To build more!)
Caste System: I really like the GPP/districts idea!

Universal Suffrage: +2 yield, (and +1 food?) per specialist.
Public Schools: similar to macedonian barracks, small science gain upon building a worker or settler.
Environmentalism: +1 production to woods/jungles. -1 production from mines/quarries.
Bureaucracy: +1 science, culture on each improved tile in the capital (I reject your width for height!) (would love to see the Civ4 +% hammers/gold return as well)
Pioneers: building settlers doesn't reduce population (a mid game card)
Reconstruction: Repairing improvements costs no movement.

And of course, keeping our wonderful cards that buff builder production/charges and settler production. One big constraint is that we can swap cards a lot, so a 'whipping' type abilities might need to be tied to a government, not a policy. (Plus early growth is really really fast, it'd be hard to balance)

Builders are just such a big production sink that whenever you have land to improve (which is most of the game,) you should be running the builder policy. I would like something to add more flavor to just how you intend to use builders.

If we are going to flesh out social policies in future expansions, then I think someone's suggestion-that we need more penalty for swapping policies and/or governments than mere gold cost-should be taken into consideration. The turns of anarchy thing we had in Civ4 might be a bit much....but perhaps a variable number of turns worth of reduced amenity and/or housing might be worth considering.

You pose some interesting ideas, though I'd prefer to have Public School as a Building, rather than a policy (though I'd be cool with having Public Education as an Economic Policy), one that can be built within a neighbourhood or Campus District (yes, I think future expansions should look at buildings that can be built within different districts). Also, some of the ones you mention fall under either economic or legal policies, but good ideas regardless.