discussion on provincial borders
- Thread starter DaveShack
- Start date
donsig
Low level intermediary
I posted a screenshot and said where I'd draw the line.
We have three or four choices here:
1) Plexus governs the three cities
2) Plexus governs the capitol and one other city
a) Domestic governs the other city
b) the other city is made part of province #2 and one of the Senators-at-large governs it
3) Plexus Governs the capitol
a) Domestic governs the other cities
b) Domestic governs one and the other is put in province #2
c) one is put in province #2 and the other into province #3
Seven possibilities already with just three cities. Build another city and the possibilities grow. That's why we're supposed to be defining provinces ahead of expansion. Let's discuss these posssibilities now and poll if need be. Then we can set borders accordingly and then make the borders legal.
I'd vote to put Vandelay in a different province than DR.
Cyc
Looking for the door...
Ok, donsig. Although your suggested Province map created an illegal Province, we'll call yours Proposed Provincial Map 1. I have drafted a second map which shows Province 1 in a legal size. Just for you, I have put Vandelay outside of the first Province's borders. This Province contains 125 tiles.
donsig
Low level intermediary
I like your province number one Cyc. (Hey, does your province have a name yet, Governor Plexus?)
Technical question Cyc: Since your map doesn't include a second province, would Vandelay (and any future cities not in province one) be governed by the domestic/interior minister until other provinces are formally defined?
I withdraw my proposal in favor of Cyc's and move that the borders of province one be offically set as soon as legally possible.
Technical question Cyc: Since your map doesn't include a second province, would Vandelay (and any future cities not in province one) be governed by the domestic/interior minister until other provinces are formally defined?
I withdraw my proposal in favor of Cyc's and move that the borders of province one be offically set as soon as legally possible.
Is the tile limit based on workable tiles, or land tiles? There is value in considering workable water tiles, but without knowing where cities will fall it is difficult to count them.
Plexus
Architeuthidae puericomedentis
Berry is all Jungle... 
Cyc
Looking for the door...
The tile count is based on Land Tiles. This cover-all phrase is used to identify a tile that a city may be placed on. Although a city may not be placed on a mountain tile,it is the only Land Tile that falls into that category, so it's not worth the effort to separate them out. Although water tiles have land under the water, 
you can't place a city there, so water tiles are not counted. Hopefully, there are no water tiles under the fog, although if there is, it's not a big deal.
I would still like to wait and see what's under all the fog surrounding DR before we vote on a Permenant Borderline. I can probably draw some alternate Provinces after we see what's there.
I kind of like Proposed Provincial Map 2 because it looks like a large bird (eagle?) swooping down to pick up a meal.
you can't place a city there, so water tiles are not counted. Hopefully, there are no water tiles under the fog, although if there is, it's not a big deal.I would still like to wait and see what's under all the fog surrounding DR before we vote on a Permenant Borderline. I can probably draw some alternate Provinces after we see what's there.
I kind of like Proposed Provincial Map 2 because it looks like a large bird (eagle?) swooping down to pick up a meal.
Cyc
Looking for the door...
Originally posted by Plexus
Berry is all Jungle...
Heheheh. What would you rather have, Plex, Jungle or Desert?
Keep in mind I'd like to create other Province designs, also.
My business trip concludes today, at which time I will be able to provide an additional suggestion for the provincial border.
donsig
Low level intermediary
Didn't I hear someone say earlier that we have a relatively easy way to adjust provincial borders once they are made? We're talking about drawing lines in the sand not pouring concrete. I think it's important to draw some boundaries now given what we can see and then finesse them later at our leisure.
Bill_in_PDX
Grumpy Submariner
Question about the province borders.
In cyc's map, which I like, I notice that there is potential city radius overlap between the capitol and Vandelay. If those cities are in two different provinces, do we have a method in place for the governors to work together down the road if it would be to our benefit for Vandelay to work some of those tiles in Province 1?
Or is the border a firm line, and no such cooperation is allowed?
In cyc's map, which I like, I notice that there is potential city radius overlap between the capitol and Vandelay. If those cities are in two different provinces, do we have a method in place for the governors to work together down the road if it would be to our benefit for Vandelay to work some of those tiles in Province 1?
Or is the border a firm line, and no such cooperation is allowed?
Cyc
Looking for the door...
Yes, Bill there is a Law that clarifies what to do in a situation like the one you pointed out. That would be CoL Section C.1.b.2:
b. A governor organizes the production of their province.
1. A governor organizes the build queues of the cities
in thier province
1. A governor organizes the tile use in their province.
2. If a tile is unused, it may be used by a city in a
neighboring province.
________________________________________________
Although I imagine without the typo, it would really be C.1.b.2.a.
Discussion between the Governors can solve a dispute or request for the use of a tile in a different Province. As a Governor in other DG's I solved this via a PM.
b. A governor organizes the production of their province.
1. A governor organizes the build queues of the cities
in thier province
1. A governor organizes the tile use in their province.
2. If a tile is unused, it may be used by a city in a
neighboring province.
________________________________________________
Although I imagine without the typo, it would really be C.1.b.2.a.
Discussion between the Governors can solve a dispute or request for the use of a tile in a different Province. As a Governor in other DG's I solved this via a PM.
Furiey
No Longer Just Lurking
I would like to know whether or not there is a land bridge at the bottom of that unexplored region to the West. If there isn't then a large portion of the boundary for the future western province will be determined by the coast. This will have a knock on effect on the boundary between the western province and Berry. Hopefully with a 10 turn session we will find out.
donsig
Low level intermediary
The time for more proposals has passed long ago. Let's poll Cyc's proposal for acceptance or rejection.
Here is an updated version of Cyc's proposal with a 2nd province defined on the desert part of the land we know about. A 3rd province would be placed on the grasslands to the east and southeast, where we're going after the iron deposit.
This does not result in as balanced a production capability as I would like, but one must work with the materials at hand.
Assuming of course we get there first and claim the land, here is a way to adjust the borders originally proposed by Cyc to give some of Berry's productive tiles in the NW to the 2nd province, and take more land toward the Babylonians for Berry.
This does not result in as balanced a production capability as I would like, but one must work with the materials at hand.
Assuming of course we get there first and claim the land, here is a way to adjust the borders originally proposed by Cyc to give some of Berry's productive tiles in the NW to the 2nd province, and take more land toward the Babylonians for Berry.
Cyc
Looking for the door...
Nice maps, DS. But from the looks of it, the land to the West of Berry Province may be better than the land you wan to take from the Capital Province. I totally disagree with your second idea. You are taking tiles that are 3 tiles away from the Capital city and replacing them with tiles that are more than twice as far away. Province number 2 should get the tiles still in the fog, west of Berry. Leave the tiles in the original Berry map alone, please. I think enough was given up by giving Province #2 Vandelay. I can't see raking Berry further by making it all Jungle. This is totally unfair.
If we could get the damn warrior over to the SW and uncover the land there, we would be ready to actually start drawing up the Second Province. Until then, it's kind of pointless.
But if you do wind up taking that land from Berry, then Berry should get any land to the West, when the fog is removed.
To put it in perspective, Berry would have 22 tiles that were not desert or Jungle. Province #2 would have 37 using your first map. Taking tiles away from Berry would just make that figure worse.
If we could get the damn warrior over to the SW and uncover the land there, we would be ready to actually start drawing up the Second Province. Until then, it's kind of pointless.
But if you do wind up taking that land from Berry, then Berry should get any land to the West, when the fog is removed.
To put it in perspective, Berry would have 22 tiles that were not desert or Jungle. Province #2 would have 37 using your first map. Taking tiles away from Berry would just make that figure worse.
Good points, Cyc. The 2nd map was just a quick example of how an adjustment could be made. It would also be quite valid to take the extreme western 2 tiles (which seem to be leading onto a land bridge) from Berry to province 2, and then "rotate" province 2 counter-clockwise by giving it more tiles on the presumed land bridge and fewer in the extreme NE. If that sounds promising we can draw up a new map.
Or we can lock down Berry and leave province 2 for another 10 turns of exploring the possible land bridge before deciding.
Or we can lock down Berry and leave province 2 for another 10 turns of exploring the possible land bridge before deciding.
Bill_in_PDX
Grumpy Submariner
I appreciate the effort on the maps Dave. Very slick!
From Dave's maps i see that most of the first 2 provinces are just jungle or derset. Shouldn't we give less productive provinces like that more land; and more productive one should have less land area, like the mysical third province which might have lots of grassland, with iron and wine.
can we not have a system of deciding province borders by production value, rather than counting tiles.
Something like: each province have between 3500 -- 500 production points.
1 shield (potential) is 1 point
1 food (potential) is 1 point
1 commerce (potential) is 1 point
1 citizen (current) is 1 point
1 point for any 1 tile which is worked on.
can we not have a system of deciding province borders by production value, rather than counting tiles.
Something like: each province have between 3500 -- 500 production points.
1 shield (potential) is 1 point
1 food (potential) is 1 point
1 commerce (potential) is 1 point
1 citizen (current) is 1 point
1 point for any 1 tile which is worked on.
