Do defensive bonus from walls stack with culture?

[Alzara]

Hey guys

Do defensive structures like archery ranges and walls stack their defensive bonuses with the defensive bonus resulting from culture? I never usually build walls but I am considering using them due to a disasterous experience with HUGE stacked barbarian armies lol

Al

 

[Gutentag]

I'm pretty sure it is either the culture bonus or walls, whichever is higher that gets used, but not both.

 

[BeefontheBone]

Nope. As in vanilla the greater of the buiding and cultural defence is (currently) used. Walls are, however, a rquirement for castles, which have a genuine benefit of their own and are (used to be?) a requisite building for a couple of high-level units.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Castles as buildings were removed (when they were added as upgrades forts), hence walls are no longer a prerequisite for them, nor are they prerequisites for any units (they used to be needed for Paladins and Eidola).

I'm thinking I'll probably either remove or greatly reduce cultural defense in the next version of my modmod. However, I'd rather figure out how do do what snarko did for one of the options of his options modmod, in which he made the defenses be multiplied together; a city with no defensive buildings would get no cultural defense, and high culture would dramatically improve the building defense.


I'm also considering adding a couple of lines of python to create a fort in a city when it finishes building its walls; thus, the city defense would still rely on culture, but the improvement on the city's tile would strengthen defenders both in the city and nearby.

 

[Vehem]

I'm also considering adding a couple of lines of python to create a fort in a city when it finishes building its walls; thus, the city defense would still rely on culture, but the improvement on the city's tile would strengthen defenders both in the city and nearby.

Now that I like.

The way I would probably go about dealing with Cultural defence is to make the first 2 levels of growth worth no cultural defence (upto fat-cross size), then have an accelerated increase such that it returns to the normal max by the time it reaches Legendary.

I'd also add an early wall (Pallisade) with Crafting that required relatively few hammers so that small cities had a chance to gain some defence. Then walls as normal and finally a "keep building" which does exactly what Magister describes above, requiring the walls be already built.

That way, there is a definite benefit to high-culture cities and their defences, but a lot of cities won't get them quickly (having to grow to 3rd ring size before getting the first, lowish bonus). Walls remain the better option early on, whilst the Keep provides benefit later.

 

[xienwolf]

Actually the keep is a really strong bonus. Bombarding defenses of the city wouldn't be able to affect that particular defense bonus at all.

 

[Mailbox]

And wouldn't that fort upgrade to a citadel, thus making the city very powerful in defense?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yep. It could eventually be very powerful. Of course, I could also create a new terrain improvement to place here instead. Also, I was wondering if it might be appropriate to make the Citadel of Light create a Sentry Tower on the city's tile. That would boost sight in addition to eventually upgrading to a citadel.


I might implement a series tiered defensive buildings, and have them create new fort-like improvements that won't upgrade automatically but will be replaced by a better one when the next level building is added. If so, I may make the Citadel of Light and the Chancel of the Guardians be UBs for these defensive structures, providing improved terrain improvements. (I'm also thining I may want to make wall of stone create a fort-like improvement too, one and be able to create them either in our out of a city. I'd rather these be temporary though, so it would require more coding)


I'm not quite sure what would happen when such a city is captured or razed, but I suspect that the improvement but not the building would remain if captured, and that city ruins would replace the improvement if razed. I might have to add some more coding to make destroy the improvement if the building was destroyed. I may also try to make it so that bombarding a city has a small chance of destroying the building/improvement, probably reducing it to the level just below it.

 

[Vehem]

I may also try to make it so that bombarding a city has a small chance of destroying the building/improvement, probably reducing it to the level just below it.

One word.
Earthquake.

And a smiley.

 

[xienwolf]

Why not let them keep the building? If the main use of the building is to make the improvement, then they have to start from scratch, which means if there are 3 tiers of this, and you capture a city at the second tier, you have to downgrade before you are able to upgrade.

 

[Mailbox]

What kind of code (and where) would you need to add in python to build a fort in the city tile on construction of a wall?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

placing these two lines:

		if iBuildingType == gc.getInfoTypeForString('BUILDING_WALLS'):
			pPlot.setImprovementType(gc.getInfoTypeForString('IMPROVEMENT_FORT'))

in the onBuildingBuilt(self, argsList) define of C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Fall from Heaven 2 030\Assets\python\CvEventManager.py would suffice.

 

[Mailbox]

Thanks a ton, maybe over spring break I'll be done with all these design projects and be able to start work on those mods I've been meaning to merge with FFH2 (as well as learning more Python/SDK stuff ).

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

A related question though: are gunpowder units worth building in this game? As in, exactly what defenses do they ignore? I never built them in large numbers, can never tell. Why do they cost so many hammers to build anyway?

Of course, if they ignore both cultural and building defenses, then yes, I see their worth.

 

[Alzara]

From what I can see there are no gunpowder units. Arquebi are archery units and cannons are seige units... unless they are also classified as "gunpowder" units also?

Al

 

[MagisterCultuum]

They are unitcombat_archer (which should really be renamed "ranged, or something like that, since it includes slinger, javelin throwers, and firearms), but they still ignore building defenses, like all gunpowder units do in vanilla.

 

[Alzara]

Cool. I didn't know that. Admittedly walls and other defensive structures are useless in general. It's far easier to build culture. It's a shame really as I'd like to see situations where players are forced to build walls or something else to make them less... pointless

Al

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yeah. Thats why I'm seriously reducing the cultural defense modifiers (possibly eliminating them for all but the highest cultural levels, and maybe making those levels harder to achieve) in the next version of my modmod, and possibly adding defensive buildings that create fort-like terrain improvements on the city tile when completed.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

The purpose walls serve is to halve the effectiveness of bombardment.

For raw defense, they're useless.

 

[Tugendbold]

dont know if it has been answered before but do citadels next to each other stack? So if a city had the 8 places next to it spammed with citadels would it improve its defense bonus?