1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Do we know the starting bias of each Civ?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Keejus, Mar 22, 2011.

  1. Keejus

    Keejus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    311
    Location:
    Denmark
    EDIT: We do indeed know them all. Most biases are simply a "region" bias, where a region is a defined area on the map that is dominated by the listed terrain type. To have a region bias simply means you will start near the terrain your bias desires. For example, on an Earth map with a cold Scandinavia, all of Europe could be considered one "Tundra" region, which would mean that Russia with its tundra bias, is equally likely to start in Spain as it is in Sweden. River and coast biases are self-explanatory, and a non-region bias merely means the civilization will spawn in any region other than the aforementioned.

    America: Rivers? (Patch notes say this was removed, but it still shows up in the xml)
    Arabia: Desert (not oil, but the desert tends to have plenty of it)
    Aztec: Jungle
    Denmark: Coast
    Egypt: Not Jungle or Forest (IE, they'll start in any region that isn't jungle/forest)
    England: Coast
    Inca: Hills
    India: Grass
    Iroquois: Forest
    Mongolia: Plains (where horses are most common)
    Ottomans: Coast
    Polynesia: Coast
    Russia: Tundra
    Siam: Not Jungle
    Songhai: Not Tundra
    Spain: Coast

    Other civs: Do not have any bias. Getting iron with Rome comes down to luck, alas
     
  2. Pouakai

    Pouakai It belongs in a museum. Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2010
    Messages:
    7,151
    Location:
    Aotearoa
    When I played on an earth map as Monte I spawned halfway between the great lakes of NA and the Jungles of the RL Aztec homeland
     
  3. Solver

    Solver Civ4/5 beta tester

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,260
    Location:
    Latvia, Riga
    Monty does have a Jungle bias, Catherine has a Tundra bias.
     
  4. Pouakai

    Pouakai It belongs in a museum. Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2010
    Messages:
    7,151
    Location:
    Aotearoa
    I think Arabia has a desert bias and Ottoman an ocean bias? Polynesia definately has an ocean bias.
     
  5. Doctor Phibes

    Doctor Phibes Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    486
    Location:
    London
    There's a strong forest bias for Hiawatha, who I've been playing lately. (It's only fair, he would be a dead duck in a desert.) Tends to be towards the edge of the tundra, so Cathy nearly always pops up as an (annoying) neighbour.
     
  6. Keejus

    Keejus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    311
    Location:
    Denmark
    I know, but I mean like, is it just "spawn within x tiles of a jungle tile", or is it "somewhere with access to fresh water and also jungle", and in that case, how strong is his preference for either? There's clearly more going on than "there's tundra here and there; russia, go there".

    I spawned in Spain as Russia when I played them, nowhere near any tundra (the nearest was in Finland/Sweden on a Huge map), so there's also clearly more going on here.
     
  7. Doctor Phibes

    Doctor Phibes Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    486
    Location:
    London
    I think it's a bias, not absolute, there seems to be a random factor. But in any case, taking Russia, their UA means that they can deploy it almost anywhere, as long as there are strategic resources. But the Iroquois need forest, and England needs the sea.

    Almost worth going through the list to see who can use any kind of terrain and who is more specialised. It shouldn't matter where you put the Egyptians either, I'd say, though they do seem to turn up on the edge of desert...
     
  8. Solver

    Solver Civ4/5 beta tester

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,260
    Location:
    Latvia, Riga
    Yeah, the biases are just that, biases. The map is divided into regions by the map generator... a jungle bias means the civ is likely to start in a jungle region. That may not happen for some other reason though. And I believe the biases just indicate what terrain region is preferred, nothing as strong as "within x tiles of a lake", etc.
     
  9. Pouakai

    Pouakai It belongs in a museum. Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2010
    Messages:
    7,151
    Location:
    Aotearoa
    I heard something about Washington having a River bias, based on an early development version of their UA.
     
  10. Zyxpsilon

    Zyxpsilon Running Spider

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,057
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    On Earth
    Keejus, Jaroth's spreadsheet wasn't enough to deduct any such bias for specific Civs attributes, or what?
    Flavors for TileImprovement & plenty more hints on what they are focusing on.
     
  11. Doctor Phibes

    Doctor Phibes Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    486
    Location:
    London
    Great spreadsheet in general. But I don't see it helps with the OP's question much except to tell us that England and Polynesia are biased towards water tiles, which is the one thing we already knew...
     
  12. Zyxpsilon

    Zyxpsilon Running Spider

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,057
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    On Earth
    If production or growth is their focus - should they go for Mines or Farms?
    duh-

    As for any of their starting bias i recon, it's more of a totally random factor with a clear splash of specific setting options (by map & resources) thrown in.
    Ref; AssignStartingPlots.lua... search in the block of text.
     
  13. Solver

    Solver Civ4/5 beta tester

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,260
    Location:
    Latvia, Riga
    It's in the Civ5Civilizations.xml file, actually. A quick look shows that Arabia prefers Desert, Aztecs prefer Jungle, India prefers Grassland, Iroquois prefer Forest and Russia prefers tundra. Also, some civs avoid some terrains. Egypt avoids Jungle and Forest, Siam avoids Forest, Songhai avoids Tundra.

    Note once again that these mean where a civ is likely (or unlikely) to start, but does not guarantee anything.
     
  14. Keejus

    Keejus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    Messages:
    311
    Location:
    Denmark
    Ah, I see. Thanks!

    I was kinda hoping for a complex algorithm or something, though. Ah well
     
  15. Doctor Phibes

    Doctor Phibes Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    486
    Location:
    London
    Thanks, should have thought to look in the xml, I blame this head cold.
     
  16. magnus333

    magnus333 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2002
    Messages:
    119
    Here is the full list:
    Code:
    <!-- NOTE TO MODDERS: Each Civ can belong to only one of the four Start Bias categories, listed below. -->
    	<!-- If a Civ has entries in any of the four following tables, any entries in later tables will end up being ignored. -->
    	<!-- So... Coastal bias trumps River bias trumps Region Priority trumps Region Avoid. -->
    	<!-- The best practice is to pick only one of the four types (or none), for each civilization. -->
    	<Civilization_Start_Along_Ocean>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_ENGLAND</CivilizationType>
    			<StartAlongOcean>true</StartAlongOcean>
    		</Row>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_OTTOMAN</CivilizationType>
    			<StartAlongOcean>true</StartAlongOcean>
    		</Row>
    	</Civilization_Start_Along_Ocean>
    	<Civilization_Start_Along_River>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_AMERICA</CivilizationType>
    			<StartAlongRiver>true</StartAlongRiver>
    		</Row>
    	</Civilization_Start_Along_River>
    	<!-- NOTE TO MODDERS: Both single and multiple entries for Region Priority (per Civ) are supported! -->
    	<!-- If a Civ has one Priority, then on maps without a region of that type, fallback methods apply. -->
    	<!-- The fallback methods will match the given civ with a region that has the most tiles of the priority terrain type. -->
    	<!-- For instance, if Russia is set for Tundra priority but a map has no Tundra regions, they will look for a region that has some tundra. -->
    	<!-- If a Civ is given multiple priorities, fallbacks are not used: the bias isn't applied when a map has none of those region types. -->
    	<Civilization_Start_Region_Priority>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_ARABIA</CivilizationType>
    			<RegionType>REGION_DESERT</RegionType>
    		</Row>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_AZTEC</CivilizationType>
    			<RegionType>REGION_JUNGLE</RegionType>
    		</Row>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_INDIA</CivilizationType>
    			<RegionType>REGION_GRASS</RegionType>
    		</Row>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_IROQUOIS</CivilizationType>
    			<RegionType>REGION_FOREST</RegionType>
    		</Row>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_RUSSIA</CivilizationType>
    			<RegionType>REGION_TUNDRA</RegionType>
    		</Row>
    	</Civilization_Start_Region_Priority>
    	<!-- NOTE TO MODDERS: Both single and multiple entries for Region Avoid (per Civ) are supported! -->
    	<!-- Region Avoid only kicks in for Civs that do not have a Coast, River or Priority need. -->
    	<!-- If a civ cannot avoid being placed in types it tries to avoid, the Avoid has to be ignored. -->
    	<Civilization_Start_Region_Avoid>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_EGYPT</CivilizationType>
    			<RegionType>REGION_JUNGLE</RegionType>
    		</Row>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_EGYPT</CivilizationType>
    			<RegionType>REGION_FOREST</RegionType>
    		</Row>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_SIAM</CivilizationType>
    			<RegionType>REGION_FOREST</RegionType>
    		</Row>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_SONGHAI</CivilizationType>
    			<RegionType>REGION_TUNDRA</RegionType>
    		</Row>
    	</Civilization_Start_Region_Avoid>
    Mongolia:
    Code:
    	<Civilization_Start_Region_Priority>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_MONGOL</CivilizationType>
    			<RegionType>REGION_PLAINS</RegionType>
    		</Row>
    	</Civilization_Start_Region_Priority>
    Spain and Inca:
    Code:
    	<Civilization_Start_Along_Ocean>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_SPAIN</CivilizationType>
    			<StartAlongOcean>true</StartAlongOcean>
    		</Row>
    	</Civilization_Start_Along_Ocean>
    	<Civilization_Start_Region_Priority>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_INCA</CivilizationType>
    			<RegionType>REGION_HILLS</RegionType>
    		</Row>
    	</Civilization_Start_Region_Priority>
    Polynesia:
    Code:
    	<Civilization_Start_Along_Ocean>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_POLYNESIA</CivilizationType>
    			<StartAlongOcean>true</StartAlongOcean>
    		</Row>
    	</Civilization_Start_Along_Ocean>
    Babylon doesn't have any.
     
  17. Zyxpsilon

    Zyxpsilon Running Spider

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2009
    Messages:
    3,057
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    On Earth
    Gee, how could i have missed that other file too?
    But - wait, there's even *MORE* modifiers present in some *.xml lines.
    Want the whole rest of the highly complex &#425; equation?
     
  18. Doctor Phibes

    Doctor Phibes Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    486
    Location:
    London
    Well, you're doing our homework for us, but go on then...
     
  19. NukeAJS

    NukeAJS Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Messages:
    767
    Arabia definitely has an oil bias. Not sure if this is due to desert tiles, or if it's more likely for oil to pop on their oil tiles. I kinda suspect it's both.
     
  20. magnus333

    magnus333 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2002
    Messages:
    119
    Oil only spawns in desert, tundra and ocean. In the default map scripts anyway.
     

Share This Page