Do we want to have the concept of council votes?

[DaveShack]

I noticed, to my great surprise, that we have a council vote provision in the de-facto rules. It seems a mid-term Vice President nomination is subject to a vote of the Consuls.

This is a pretty straight up or down question for the citizens. We have had council votes in the past, and they have often turned out badly. Do you, the citizens, want as few as 2-3 people making decisions for you? Do you want to be denied your opportunity to approve of an appointment that those 2-3 people do not approve of? Do you want oligarchy, or democracy?

 

[Provolution]

There you go Daveshack, a new Vice Presidential Approval Poll, or even, you could present all candidates that applies and nominate the two you like best, write a paragraph on each, and let us vote in a poll. I never advocated Consul votes.

 

[donsig]

I am opposed to council votes because they give too much power to a few people. Waiting for council votes can hold up important decisions. Our experience has shown that forum based cuncil votes take a long, long time whereas chat based votes are sometimes made by the sole council member who happens to be present.

 

[ravensfire]

Except for the one, single vote in the ruleset, we don't need them.

No council votes.

-- Ravensfire

 

[MOTH]

We shouldn't have council votes.

 

[Provolution]

abolish them, sooner or later the Consul votes will be abused.

 

[DaveShack]

Except for the one, single vote in the ruleset, we don't need them.

No council votes.

-- Ravensfire

Are you trying to say we do need the consul vote to approve a vice president? If there is support for "no council votes" I plan to propose an amendment to remove this one instance.

 

[ravensfire]

Bah - trying to write while dealing with a support issue. Let's try this again.

I don't like council votes of any type. I'd like to see the one in there go away totally. If we've got to have them, I don't want to see any more.

Please - get rid of the darn thing!

-- Ravensfire

 

[Provolution]

This would eliminate Consul votes as a concept.

2. Vice President - Assistant to the President. He/she may
take over the President's tasks when the President is
absent. If the President should be removed from office
for any reason the Vice President will then take the
position of President and appoint a Vice President.
DELETE The Vice President must be approved by a majority of
the consuls, if the Vice President is appointed mid-term.
ADD The Vice President must accept the Appointment within 48 hours of the announcement, or the Appointment will be automatically rendered invalid.
The Vice President must also be approved by a 48 hour Approval Poll, to be held within 24 hours of the acceptance of the appointment.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

I am very opposed to council votes.

 

[DaveShack]

Why have a mandatory approval poll at all? Just allow any citizen who disagrees with the appointment handle it via the same process as any other disagreement with an appointment.

2. Vice President - Assistant to the President. He/she may
take over the President's tasks when the President is
absent. If the President should be removed from office
for any reason the Vice President will then take the
position of President and appoint a Vice President.
The Vice President must be approved by a majority of
the consuls, if the Vice President is appointed mid-term.
​

 

[Provolution]

I think every CoC should go through some minimal approval. I would say Presidential Appointment, short approval poll and no city naming due to the longer time to nominate the VP.

 

[ravensfire]

Why - let there be a confirmation poll, just like every other deputy position. If you don't like the appointment, post the poll - just as you did with donsig. That gives the process all the oversight it needs.

There is NO REASON to bog this down with mindless polls when nobody is concerned. Keep this thing simple.

-- Ravensfire

 

[blackheart]

No council votes, with all the reasons previously stated.

 

[Provolution]

Why - let there be a confirmation poll, just like every other deputy position. If you don't like the appointment, post the poll - just as you did with donsig. That gives the process all the oversight it needs.

There is NO REASON to bog this down with mindless polls when nobody is concerned. Keep this thing simple.

-- Ravensfire

This is exactly what I meant, no mandatory poll for approval, only a citizen run one if the situation is contested or conducted illegitimately.

 

[ravensfire]

This is exactly what I meant, no mandatory poll for approval, only a citizen run one if the situation is contested or conducted illegitimately.

Sheesh - then why didn't you say so in the first place!

Thus far, you've said:

a new Vice Presidential Approval Poll, or even, you could present all candidates that applies and nominate the two you like best, write a paragraph on each, and let us vote in a poll.

The Vice President must also be approved by a 48 hour Approval Poll, to be held within 24 hours of the acceptance of the appointment.

I think every CoC should go through some minimal approval. I would say Presidential Appointment, short approval poll and no city naming due to the longer time to nominate the VP.

And those are just from this thread! So, now which proposal are you going to support?

-- Ravensfire

 

[Provolution]

In fact, I am open to both, as both would handle the problem satisfactorily.
We should possibly propose both at once, and let the citizens compare and weigh the options. I think a legal debate is about giving options, not telling singular "truths".

 

[Black_Hole]

No counil votes, but also dont add any extra lines, let someone post a confirmation poll if they want.

 

[Ashburnham]

Council votes = bad!
Optional Confirmation Polls = good!

 

[Eklektikos]

I'm not opposed to council votes in principle, but I would hesitate to support limiting them to the rather tiny Consular body. Nor, for that matter, would I consider the appointment of a VP to warrant such a thing at all.