The Germans were far more advanced in the field of submarines. If only Donitz had had his way and more U-boats would have been manufactured instead of what was proven to be less and less important in warfare (the battleship) there would have been a serious threat to the shipping operations between the US and the UK, with disastrous results.
Do you know what the Tirpitz is?
- Thread starter Spectator
- Start date
Spectator
Chieftain
YOU are wrong, because it did not oil, the Bismark had to run at 20knots instead of 30 to save up on oil. If it had it would've reach the cost in time to have the air cover it needed.
Let me just get the facts and post them. I read it yesterday for christ sake....BRB!
Dralix
Killer of threads
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2001
- Messages
- 2,407
Sink The Bismark
Johnny Horton
In may of nineteen forty-one the war had just begun
The germans had the biggest ships
That had the biggest guns
The Bismark was the fastest ship
That ever sailed the seas
On her deck were guns as big as steers
And shells as big as trees
Out of the cold and foggy night
Came the british ship the Hood
And ev'ry british seaman he knew and understood
They had to sink the Bismark the terror of the sea
Stop those guns as bid as steers
And those shells as big as trees
We'll find that german battleship
That's makin' such a fuss
We gotta sink the Bismark
'Cause the world depends on us
Hit the decks a-runnin' boys
And spin those guns around
When we find the Bismark we gotta cut her down
The Hood found the Bismark and on that fatal day
The Bismark started firin' fifteen miles away
We gotta sink the Bismark was the battle sound
But when the smoke had cleared away
The mighty Hood went down
For six long days and weary nights
They tried to find her trail
Churchill told the people put ev'ry ship a-sail
'Cause somewhere on that ocean
I know she's gotta be
We gotta sink the Bismark to the bottom of the sea
We'll find that german battleship
That's makin' such a fuss
We gotta sink the Bismark
'Cause the world depends on us
Hit the decks a-runnin' boys
And spin those guns around
When we find the Bismark we gotta cut her down
The fog was gone the seventh day
And they saw the mornin' sun
Ten hours away from homeland
The Bismark made its run
The admiral of the british fleet said
Turn those bows around
We found that german battleship
And we're gonna cut her down
The british guns were aimed
And the shells were comin' fast
The first shell hit the Bismark
They knew she couldn't last
That mighty german battleship is just a memory
Sink the Bismark was the battle cry
That shook the seven seas
We found that german battleship
Was makin' such a fuss
We had to sink the Bismark
'Cause the world depends on us
We hit the deck a-runnin' and
We spun those guns around
We found the mighty Bismark
And then we cut her down
We found that german battleship
Was makin' such a fuss
We had to sink the Bismark
'Cause the world depends on us
We hit the deck a-runnin' and
We spun those guns around
We found the mighty Bismark
And then we cut her down
Johnny Horton
In may of nineteen forty-one the war had just begun
The germans had the biggest ships
That had the biggest guns
The Bismark was the fastest ship
That ever sailed the seas
On her deck were guns as big as steers
And shells as big as trees
Out of the cold and foggy night
Came the british ship the Hood
And ev'ry british seaman he knew and understood
They had to sink the Bismark the terror of the sea
Stop those guns as bid as steers
And those shells as big as trees
We'll find that german battleship
That's makin' such a fuss
We gotta sink the Bismark
'Cause the world depends on us
Hit the decks a-runnin' boys
And spin those guns around
When we find the Bismark we gotta cut her down
The Hood found the Bismark and on that fatal day
The Bismark started firin' fifteen miles away
We gotta sink the Bismark was the battle sound
But when the smoke had cleared away
The mighty Hood went down
For six long days and weary nights
They tried to find her trail
Churchill told the people put ev'ry ship a-sail
'Cause somewhere on that ocean
I know she's gotta be
We gotta sink the Bismark to the bottom of the sea
We'll find that german battleship
That's makin' such a fuss
We gotta sink the Bismark
'Cause the world depends on us
Hit the decks a-runnin' boys
And spin those guns around
When we find the Bismark we gotta cut her down
The fog was gone the seventh day
And they saw the mornin' sun
Ten hours away from homeland
The Bismark made its run
The admiral of the british fleet said
Turn those bows around
We found that german battleship
And we're gonna cut her down
The british guns were aimed
And the shells were comin' fast
The first shell hit the Bismark
They knew she couldn't last
That mighty german battleship is just a memory
Sink the Bismark was the battle cry
That shook the seven seas
We found that german battleship
Was makin' such a fuss
We had to sink the Bismark
'Cause the world depends on us
We hit the deck a-runnin' and
We spun those guns around
We found the mighty Bismark
And then we cut her down
We found that german battleship
Was makin' such a fuss
We had to sink the Bismark
'Cause the world depends on us
We hit the deck a-runnin' and
We spun those guns around
We found the mighty Bismark
And then we cut her down
Richard III
Duke of Gloucester
The USN offered covert assistance in covering search areas for the RN. For which the UK was covertly grateful.
R.III
R.III
Spectator
Chieftain
Here it is, and read it right now.
Spectator
Chieftain
Yea well just follow the link I posted.
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
Tsk, even though it did not oil from Weissenbung or Wollen, this was compounded by the hits it took from Prince of Wales during the battle.
As for the other arguments that Bismarck sunk x amount of ships, the facts do not support it; she simply was not out for long enough.
http://www.warships1.com/GERbb08_Bismarck_history.htm
And now, a copy of their operational history, care of the reputable Warships of the World website:
BISMARCK
trials in Baltic Sea Sep.14-Dec.5/40
refitted Jan.24/41
trials and training in Baltic Sea in May./41
set out on Operation Rheinuburg May.19/41
leaved Gotenhafen that day
anchored in Korsfjord,Norway May.21/41 sighted by UK recon plane
leave fjord that day
detected by HMS's Norfolkk and Suffolk May.23/41
sank Hood, damaged Prince Of Wales May.24/41
received 3 hits from Prince Of Wales
hit by torpedo later in day, no damage
hit on stern by torpedo from RAF Swordfish May.26/41
Damaged steering gear not repairable
sunk May.27/41 by HMS's Rodney,King George V,cruisers & destroyers and also crew scuttling
ship found by Robert Ballard Jun.5/89
TIRPITZ
trials in Baltic Sea until Jan./42
transferred from Wilhelmshaven to Drontheim Jan.14/42
took part in unsuccesful Operation Sportpalast Mar.5-9/42 against convoys PQ-8 & 12
sailed into Bow Beight near Narvik following operation
unsuccesful operations against convoys PQ13 & 17
docked in Loo Fjord,Norway 1942-Feb./43
transferred to Bow Beight Mar./43 then to Ka Fjord
took part in Operation Sizilien against base at Spitzbergen Sep.6-7/43
damaged by British X6 midget submarine Sep.22/43 that laid limpet mines on her hull
turbines blasted off mountings,shafts and rudder disabled.
repaired Sep 1943-Mar./44
damaged again by RAF Barracuda's Apr.5/44 being hit 15 times by bombs
damaged by one bomb from RAF bombers Apr.17/44
under air attack later part of Aug./44
hit by one bomb on bow Oct.14/44
moved to Tromso,Norway (Sande Sound) Oct.17/44 (8 knots best speed)
bombed by 32 RAF Lancasters with 13,200 LB Tallboy bombs Nov.12/44
3 hits several near misses caused her to capsize
scrapped on site 1948-57
Furthermore, it matters not if ye read the resources yesterday or not. This happens to be an area of unhealthy interest for one, and therefore, one does know a little bit about it.
As for the other arguments that Bismarck sunk x amount of ships, the facts do not support it; she simply was not out for long enough.
http://www.warships1.com/GERbb08_Bismarck_history.htm
And now, a copy of their operational history, care of the reputable Warships of the World website:
BISMARCK
trials in Baltic Sea Sep.14-Dec.5/40
refitted Jan.24/41
trials and training in Baltic Sea in May./41
set out on Operation Rheinuburg May.19/41
leaved Gotenhafen that day
anchored in Korsfjord,Norway May.21/41 sighted by UK recon plane
leave fjord that day
detected by HMS's Norfolkk and Suffolk May.23/41
sank Hood, damaged Prince Of Wales May.24/41
received 3 hits from Prince Of Wales
hit by torpedo later in day, no damage
hit on stern by torpedo from RAF Swordfish May.26/41
Damaged steering gear not repairable
sunk May.27/41 by HMS's Rodney,King George V,cruisers & destroyers and also crew scuttling
ship found by Robert Ballard Jun.5/89
TIRPITZ
trials in Baltic Sea until Jan./42
transferred from Wilhelmshaven to Drontheim Jan.14/42
took part in unsuccesful Operation Sportpalast Mar.5-9/42 against convoys PQ-8 & 12
sailed into Bow Beight near Narvik following operation
unsuccesful operations against convoys PQ13 & 17
docked in Loo Fjord,Norway 1942-Feb./43
transferred to Bow Beight Mar./43 then to Ka Fjord
took part in Operation Sizilien against base at Spitzbergen Sep.6-7/43
damaged by British X6 midget submarine Sep.22/43 that laid limpet mines on her hull
turbines blasted off mountings,shafts and rudder disabled.
repaired Sep 1943-Mar./44
damaged again by RAF Barracuda's Apr.5/44 being hit 15 times by bombs
damaged by one bomb from RAF bombers Apr.17/44
under air attack later part of Aug./44
hit by one bomb on bow Oct.14/44
moved to Tromso,Norway (Sande Sound) Oct.17/44 (8 knots best speed)
bombed by 32 RAF Lancasters with 13,200 LB Tallboy bombs Nov.12/44
3 hits several near misses caused her to capsize
scrapped on site 1948-57
Furthermore, it matters not if ye read the resources yesterday or not. This happens to be an area of unhealthy interest for one, and therefore, one does know a little bit about it.
Spectator
Chieftain
Ok....let me look.....looking.....HA! Found it! Please read.
OMG.....I didn't read right. You are right for the total of ships Simon. I'm sorry. BUT, it's a fact that if Bismark had filled up in Norway or with and oil Tanker it would've saved the ship cuz even if it had been hit by the Prince of Whales it would,VE made it to the cost.
Spec.
Spectator
Chieftain
Hi Dralix, wassup man! Good to see you still alive.
About the Bismark, it's not an opinion, it's a fact that the Bismark had to slow down to save up on oil because it got hit by the Prince of whales AND because it had not topped off his tanks. If it had only been hit by the Pince of Whales and had his tank full the Bismarck would have not slown down, thus, would have reached the cost on time.
Spec.
joespaniel
Unescorted Settler
This thread rates a 9 on the silly scale.
Spectator
Chieftain
Why? Cuz you dont like history of war? I think that Iraq and Bush threads are getting annoying and redondent but I dont go around posting stupid remarks on those threads. If people want to talk about it fine, I just dont click on them. As for the scale, I think you bust it big time.
Spec.
joespaniel
Unescorted Settler
Im a military historian, newbie.Originally posted by Spectator
Why? Cuz you dont like history of war? Well then I think you bust the scale.
Spec.
Spectator
Chieftain
Originally posted by joespaniel
Im a military historian, newbie.
Also you have a problem with your self confidence. How am I a newbie? Cuz I dont know you? I'm glad I dont, you sound like an ass. Second how is this silly? Cuz you're a big War historian and know it all we cant talk about it? I like to learn stuff about war and history and I'm glad to admit when I make mistakes and when I do , I learn, So if you're here just to troll, we dont need you on this thread. Thank you
Spec.
Spectator
Chieftain
It stayed anchored for 16 hours, it had time to do so. The Brits even tried to bomb the Bismark but it had already left 6 hours ago.
Spec.
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
It is very much opinion and interpretation.
The very quote of the source you employ states at one point
Topping off her tanks in Norway or from a tanker at sea would certainly have eased the situation, but that had not been done.
The key words there are "certainly eased the situation". This does not imply that if they had, then the hits by the Prince of Wales would not have mattered. It was the hits in combat, in the main effecting the oil supply, that caused her to run for port.
And, like Joe, I too am a military historian; tossing up whether to do a specific study of an aspect of battleships, or The Development of Naval Surface Warfare since 1945 as a doctorate topic in a few years when I take a break from teaching and flee back to academe for a while.
It is always advisable not to burst into a forum shouting that your arguments are utterly factual and irrefutable; it is like running into a room full of strangers and doing the same.
Just a friendly piece of advice to be considered or discarded as ye see fit.
Having a thread on battleships is something that I welcome...it is a "hobby" of mine...
Spectator
Chieftain
Simon, since you are a war historian, I have a question for you. Do they still make battleships? I mean, would the Iowa be usefull in todays wars?
Thanks
Spec.
Thanks
Spec.
