[R&F] Do you still like R&F?

[Disgustipated]

medieval walls onwards offered earthquake protection

Why would walls offer earthquake protection? I certainly wouldn't stand next to one in an earthquake. Didn't earthquakes take down all of ancient Greece's walls? Seems like I heard something like that when I visited Rhodes when I was in the Navy. Yeah you specify medieval era, but they still didn't use rebar in those times... I still wouldn't be next to one.

 

[TomKQT]

Another thing I would like to see is making players take "difficult" decisions, even from the get go. Why is Chiefdom our only choice of government at the start? What about Tribal Council or Tribal Anarchism (or something similar, but better named) as alternative choices-maybe offering different policy slots. So the Classical Democracy analog might offer a Wildcard & Economic slot, Chiefdom would offer the Military & economic slot & Tribal Council might offer a Military & Wild Card slot (assuming part of the change didn't include increases to the maximum number of policies each government type can have).

Because nobody sane would choose the government with military and economic when you can have wildcard and economic.
Btw, with only two slots, there is not much combinations you can make. M+M, M+E, E+E. Would anyone pick both the military cards instead of one of the great economic, at this important stage of the game? In fact, I personaly would probably always choose two economic, so no variety again. Now I am at least forced to choose which economic card I take.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Because nobody sane would choose the government with military and economic when you can have wildcard and economic.
Btw, with only two slots, there is not much combinations you can make. M+M, M+E, E+E. Would anyone pick both the military cards instead of one of the great economic, at this important stage of the game? In fact, I personaly would probably always choose two economic, so no variety again. Now I am at least forced to choose which economic card I take.

Then maybe the 1st tier government needs 3 slots. Either that or we need an entirely new SP slot-like legal or labour policy slots. Or maybe even both.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Because nobody sane would choose the government with military and economic when you can have wildcard and economic.
Btw, with only two slots, there is not much combinations you can make. M+M, M+E, E+E. Would anyone pick both the military cards instead of one of the great economic, at this important stage of the game? In fact, I personaly would probably always choose two economic, so no variety again. Now I am at least forced to choose which economic card I take.

M + M wouldn't be that bad in the early game. You could boost your Scout's experience gains and have extra strength against Barbarians at the same time.

I could see a system where your starting choices were:

M + M
M + E
E + E
W

Pretty situational to choose the single Wild Card slot, but it would let you run the +2 GP or GS cards earlier.

Not really a critical thing, but it would give you some extra options.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Chieftain is designed to suck, because it encourages you to get a real government. The real choice is trying to prioritizing getting a government vs other early needs.

Of course, I think they should really change the inspiration for Political Philosophy since it's luck based outside of like, Pangaea.

 

[TomKQT]

Chieftain is designed to suck, because it encourages you to get a real government. The real choice is trying to prioritizing getting a government vs other early needs.

Of course, I think they should really change the inspiration for Political Philosophy since it's luck based outside of like, Pangaea.

Exactly. This little discussion started by a post by Aussie_Lurker who said that it would be better if players had "difficult" decisions right from the start. IMHO, making more governments from the start would make maybe the variety bigger, but certainly wouldn't make decisions harder. Now you have just 1 M and 1 E slot and you have to deal with it. And right from the start you have 2 quite good militaric cards and 2 quite good economic cards. In fact this particular part of the game and these two decisions are the most interesting for me maybe in the whole game Because you have clear choices (not 20 cards to choose from, only 2+2) and all the options can be good in some situations.
I'm pretty sure that if I had the choice to select a different combination of slots, I would be always (90 %) picking just one of them, exactly like with the tier 2 & 3 governments (merchant republic, democracy). If there was an option E+E, I would always have +1 gold +1 faith in capital and +1 production in all cities. And I would produce 1 more military unit to deal with barbarians without the +5 combat bonus (Btw, I don't play on deity.)

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Exactly. This little discussion started by a post by Aussie_Lurker who said that it would be better if players had "difficult" decisions right from the start. IMHO, making more governments from the start would make maybe the variety bigger, but certainly wouldn't make decisions harder. Now you have just 1 M and 1 E slot and you have to deal with it. And right from the start you have 2 quite good militaric cards and 2 quite good economic cards. In fact this particular part of the game and these two decisions are the most interesting for me maybe in the whole game Because you have clear choices (not 20 cards to choose from, only 2+2) and all the options can be good in some situations.
I'm pretty sure that if I had the choice to select a different combination of slots, I would be always (90 %) picking just one of them, exactly like with the tier 2 & 3 governments (merchant republic, democracy). If there was an option E+E, I would always have +1 gold +1 faith in capital and +1 production in all cities. And I would produce 1 more military unit to deal with barbarians without the +5 combat bonus (Btw, I don't play on deity.)

So, though? What's wrong with having more government choices right out of the gate? Having choices from the moment I complete Code of Laws could only improve the game's replay value, IMHO. Just as having a "semi-randomized" Inspiration/Eureka system (each tech/civic has several potential Inspirations/Eurekas, & the game randomly selects one each for the entire tech/civic tree. So sometimes Bronze Working will be triggered by killing X barbarians, whilst in another game it might be triggered by hooking up a Copper Resource....just as an example).

 

[Siptah]

So, though? What's wrong with having more government choices right out of the gate? Having choices from the moment I complete Code of Laws could only improve the game's replay value, IMHO. Just as having a "semi-randomized" Inspiration/Eureka system (each tech/civic has several potential Inspirations/Eurekas, & the game randomly selects one each for the entire tech/civic tree. So sometimes Bronze Working will be triggered by killing X barbarians, whilst in another game it might be triggered by hooking up a Copper Resource....just as an example).

Randomizing Eurekas and Inspirations is one of the things I want most, actually. I think it would improve the game very much.

 

[Infixo]

Randomizing Eurekas and Inspirations is one of the things I want most, actually. I think it would improve the game very much.

Real Eurekas

 

[Siptah]

Real Eurekas

Wow. Thank you very much! And different options for visibility as well. Made my day. Keep up the good work!

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Real Eurekas

Yep, I know about this excellent mod, but it would be great to have something similar for the un-modded game!