DocT01c - Middle Ages Modified - Arpad's Arrival

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

The 3rd SG of the Middle Ages Modified series will start soon (once a stable 1.20 patch arrives).

It will focus the Magyars as playable Civ.
Little is known about the origin of the Magyars; they appeared in the Pannonian plains during the 9th century, lead by Arpad. For about a century, they possed to be a bigger threat for the Central European nations than the more famous Vikings, they even pillaged in Denmark...
It was especially Otto the Great's merit to finally defeat them, buying peace at first after his predecessor's Heinrichs victorious battle at the Unstrut river to build up military and fortifications/ castles, then the Battle at the Lechfeld near Augsburg (955AD) ended the Magyar menace.
A mere 50 years later (1001AD), the pope crowned Stephan the Saint as King of Hungary, and established the Arch Bishopric of Pecs, indicating that the Magyars where now a fully accepted European nation.

The Start:

Starting units:

The Good:

• MIL/ AGR traits
• Temple and Barracks at Pest (which, for historical accuracy, will be renamed to Buda)
• UU: Magyar Rider, a 3.1.2 Horseman replacement, with a Defensive Bombard of 3 and the 'Collateral Damage' ability (like Berserks).
• Town Hall in the second Royal city

The Bad:

• No Relic
• No free Tech
• No Marketplace
• No Knights
• No 3rd King
• We start in Despotism, not Monarchy.

The Ugly:

• Our UU obsoletes with Castle Building (I'll use a workaround here; the Rider upgrades to Horsemen, available with Castle Building, otherwise identical with the Horseman.)
• By variant rules, we are not allowed to switch to Monarchy as long as we can build our UU - in other words, not until we get a 'civilized', but minor European nation...
• Also by variant rules, we are a landlocked Civ; nothing wrong with the odd Curragh, but if we make a crusade, our main force must take the land route.

Difficulty level:
Demigod seems doable, we can reach the Big 3 if needed, and we should be able to either take them out early, or seize at least one Relic.

Roster: (in no particular order) (everyone from the Reconquista! - team is set until he declines)
Doc Tsiolkovski
Bede
Corrado
romeothemonk
DeceasedHorse
*closed*

Comments? Requested changes? Too hard?


Try the Magyars!

Note this is not the save, but the Scenario!

 

[Bede]

I'm in.

Question: Glancing at the ReadMe for the patch I don't see much that would affect a Middle Ages Conquests game. I may be missing something but wouldn't mind playing on before the "stable" patch arrives.

Reconquista was a blast. This one should be even better. Thanks, Doc, for organizing.

 

[romeothemonk]

Im game for an emprorer run. The corruption seems to be increased in this scenario, and I think the combination of Despotism, Deity and no real corruption reducers may make this too hard. Let me know what you think.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

@Bede: Welcome aboard. The 1.20 problem known so far is the messed up 3rd era Tech screen, not a biggie, but who knows if something more serious shows up - and a fix can be expected soon anyway.

@romeothemonk: Demigod, not Deity. Deity is too much, I agree. The corruption is the reason why I put a Town Hall in Belgorod, the other 2 cities should be fine, and Despotism the main reason for picking the AGR trait; couldn't find a justification for something else anyway, but the tile penality won't hurt that much now. And I don't demand to stay in Despotism for too long; our window of opportunity is once we know HBR, we should strike then, triggering out GA of course. After that, our UU will not rule for too long, so getting CB isn't the worst idea, and with that, we are allowed to revolt. I just want to make sure to not research the entire tree, and stockpile cheap 'Mounted Warriors' (you are allowed to build your UU as long as you had no GA, even if that unit is already obsolete). And btw, Despotism isn't that bad here, the increased unit support helps - in fact, it's a viable strategy for REL Civs like the Fatimids to revolt back for that reason.
DG shouldn't change much for the opening game, but make the late game more interesting. The Celts game was fine at Emperor, Castile was helped immensely by the Bulgars, but here we CAN reach the major powers to prevent them from winning, AND we are likely to get one or even 2 relics.

Im game for an emprorer run

Err..sorry, don't understand what you mean here exactly. Are you interested?

 

[romeothemonk]

It meant that I was up for an attempt at emporer. Sorry, western speak strikes again. If you will have me I will make a run (play it out) on Demi-God with you. I'd need a quick link to the needed mods, and instructions how to mod and then unmod my system.
Thanks

 

[Corrado]

I'm in. I'd prefer to avoid 1.20 or 1.22 until they fix the backwards-compatability issue.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

@Corrado: True, but the problem is, if we start that in 1.15, we are forced to play it out in 1.15. And I for one would prefer 1.20 for unmodded games, since they fixed at least one annoying bug (RR). Point is, I have access to the hidden patch test forum, and it looks like Firaxis will act soon this time.

@romeothemonk: You're in.
And don't worry, you don't have to mod anything yourself, I'll provide all files needed, a .biq file if you want to start a game for yourself, and 2 .txt files to replace the ones from the Middle Ages Conquest - but you don't have to revert back, those just have adititonal entries for the added units (and changed .txt files have no impact on HoF entries).

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Update to the 1st post.
Please try the scenario (instructions in a readme file), to ensure it works properly.

Edit:
Just noticed I managed to incidentially upgrade to 1.20 already. Problem is, I cannot risk to revert back and screw up my installation, since I have no Civ3 CD anymore (but 2 pieces of it...).



So this SG will have to be in 1.20+
(btw, this doesn't matter for the Scenario files)

 

[Bede]

Will upgrade tonight

 

[DeceasedHorse]

I'm in; I guess I'll have to make seperate installs unless they fix the backwards compatibility issue, but that is no big deal.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

@DH: Wellcome!

@Everyone: As said, to play the scenario (not the SG), you don't have to patch, so you could as well try it out before upgrading - I'd prefer if you all played at least a few turns; Firaxis managed to put a lot of localisation problems into this. Unlike Castile, I added units here, and unlike in the Celts game, you are no game developers .

Who wants to start this, btw? I already started Castile and Fatimids, Corrado started England - Bede? DH?

And unlike Castile, I have absolutely no idea about the best opening moves - heading to HBR ASAP, or getting the usual Norse Tradition first, attacking Germany ASAP, or Bulgars and Byzantium?
IMHO every turn counts to get Riders, and IMHO we then have a good shot at Regensburg and Rome, but the Bulgarian and Byzantine Luxuries are tempting as well...

The only pretty obvious thing is to get a settler to the Balaton before the Germans/ Poles grab the Horses and Wines.

 

[DeceasedHorse]

I'm up to my eyeballs in middle ages sg's at the moment but I will play first if Bede doesn't want to. I loaded up the scenerio with no problems. In regards to what tech to research, I'm a little unsure-we really need to get horseback riding ASAP but all the AI's will probably research it for us, assuming we will actually be able to afford it.

 

[Bede]

I'll give the start a spin tonight.

@Doc
Did you save a start, or just start from the .biq?

 

[Bede]

Doc,
Alles in ordnung: 1.20 loads fine, the .biq loads and I played through five, just long enough to meet most of the neighbors.

Will play after you post the save, unless you want me to start right from the scenario?

I'm thinkng research HBR first, build a few (lots) of riders, then put the hurt on the Bulgars, then the Poles, then the Germans. The Relics will have to come through us, at least those for the Euro nations, so we should have a shot at them at that time. If they don't show up, then we can go hunting for them.

For other items, I'd want to use one of the kings for recon and build warriors after barracks in at least two towns. I'm not sure about building temples anywhere. Certainly not for border expansion, but I don't know how prone to disorder the tribe is yet, nor do I have feel for the luxuries, except the Bohemian vineyards to the west

Looks like the settler will have to come from Buda, then go west to the vineyard and the stud farm, towards the Germans. (If it's Bohemia, then it's the Lipanzaner(sp)? stud farm).

Check in tomorrow AM.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I'd suggest to go straight to 1.22 now.

Bede, just start it right up, no need to post a save before.

Re: Opening moves
I agree with the assessment the Relics will travel through our territory anyway. Now, if we focus on Bulgars/ Byzantium first, what about not starting with Norse/HBR, but the Byzantine tree? But that is definitely up to you, none of the 3 choices is bad IMHO.
Re: Lux
Aside from the vineyards, there's Wool next to the Bulgar town S of Szeged.

(btw, Lipizza is in Slovenia, not Austria or Bohemia)

 

[Bede]

On thinking about it I will start the Byzantine tree at minimum and hope to buy HBR, build some barracks and a bunch of warriors for upgrade when the iron connects (available at Buda when border expands)

Playing now.

 

[Bede]

http=www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/DocT02_879.zip]Magyar Might


843
Buda starts a granary due in 20 when I switch the citizen to the wheat tile so the city grows in 5, not 7. WIth the wheat bonus, the river, palace, temple, hills, forest and iron visible to NE, this town will grow quickly and be very productive. Warrior starts south, rex west, leaving spear in garrison.
Belgorod is separated from the rest of the realm, on a river, no forest tile in first tier, two bonus grass, and is one tile from the coast. Has two workers avalilable to it and a town hall. three swords and a rex. Send the rex exploring east, one sword south, one sword north and stack the workers to mine the grass to the N. Start barracks as temple will take 60 and we can use the veteran warriors two forests and another bonus grass.
Kassa is first ring, has access to 5 forests and shares wild cows with Bebrecen. Starts barracks. Has warrior in garrison who explores north.
Debrecen has access to cattle, quarry, iron in second tier, and four forests. Citizen is working cattle. Starts barracks and garrison warrior also explores north.
Szeged has three forest and three bonus grass in first tier, iron in second.
Starts barracks and garrison warrior goes south. There is a border to the south.

We meet several neighbors soon.

Two horsemen in grass lands to west go north and west. North horseman discovers border as does west.

Start researching Byzantine tree at minimum.

Treasury at 100g+5

T1 846
Meet Germany to the west and the War Chieftain says they outnumber us.

Meet Bulgars to south. War Chieftain says they outnumber us.

Northbound explorers spot Polish(?) border. Eastbound rex finds plains. Westbound rex finds more forests.
Westbound Rider finds two German villes, size 1 garrison spears showing.
Constantinople is visible south of Belgogrod and Rome SW of Buda.
Workers irrigate wheat at Buda and mine at Belgogrod.
Germans are annoyed at our intrusion.

T2 849
Rider continues west ignoring the German's prickliness.
Meet the Poles in the north.

Bulgars are annoyed at our intrusion and Germans kick us out.

T3 852
German relic carrier shows up heading east. Westbound Rider turns back east.
Other exploring units continue mission.
Sword heading south from Belgogrod will try to meet Byzantines.

T4 855
We meet the Turks, a horseman/settler pair.

Having met all but two of the immediate neighbors most explorers will return to base. One sword will continue south to contact Byzantium and the rex will continue into the yellow border to the SW of Buda.
Rider is shadowing German Relic carrier in the west.

Turks found Bursa in plains east of Belgogrod.

T5 858
Meet Burgundy relic carrier heading east. Wanderers return to core.
Burgundy is annoyed with our wandering king.
Byzantines meet us and are annoyed at our ragged band of stinking barbarians.

T6 861
Notice Regensburg in Germany has grown to three. Expect a settler form there soon. Western Rider heads SE to prepare for waltz.
Explorers loop around to uncover as much ground as possible.
Kassa claims cattle from Debrecen to grow faster without sacrificing growth at Debrecen. Switch Buda from granary to settler as I don't want to lose the western vineyard and stud farm to Germany.

Regensburg(German) makes settler

T7 864
Rider moves to blockade eastern exit from Germany.
Lux tax to 50% as Debrecen is about to riot.
Treasury at 139g +0gpt. Science at 10%, BI due in 33.

Bulgar settler team heads north towards Belgogrod.

Byzantines kick us out.

T8 867
Meet Rus.
Settler starts trek to west.
Western Rider blockades at Salzburg. No sign of German settler pair.
Rus are annoyed at our intrusion. Apologise and head home.
Germans are annoyed at our blockading Rider. Apologise and promise to move.

T9 870
Wanderers continue homeward journey
Germany boots us from Salzburg suburb.

T10 873
No sign of German settler. Blockade worked as he must have gone west.
Settler will reach prime spot on river and lake with access to wines and horses next era. Will continue until town is built.

Bulgars kick us out of town.

T11 876
Bulgar horseman wipes out Macromanni camp in north.

T12 879
Found Miskolc.
Bukgars found Veliki Preslav south of Belgogrod.
German settler team emerges west of Miskolc. Rider forted at Miskolc can go dance with them.

We're going to need a lot more workers to get the towns networked and developed. MP's coming on line in a couple of turns will solve the lux tax problem and towns will be at pop3 soon and can produce a worker without adverse affects on production or growth. Iron and horses are within our borders as well as wines. Buda is working on its granary, but could easily switch to a settler.


We have met everyone in the immediate vicinity so when trading opportunities open up we should be able to broker north to south

Bulgars and Turks have been on a barb killing spree and have 130 and 80 VP's respectively.

German relic is north of Krakow with two swords and a warrior for escort.
Burgundian relic is in the middle of the territory, guarded by three swords and a warrior.

Settlement suggestions:

East

West

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Well played. I did expect we have no time to get a Granary to Buda before the Miscolc Settler.
I'd consider a Temple in Miscolc first, it'll be under pressure from the German core. Get the Danue cities settled first, they are nearer to the capital, and don't forget, we're AGR.

I declare this for *free* now, whoever grabs it first may play.

(But we will return to a roster after the first round)


Funny to see those those Relics wander around!

 

[romeothemonk]

I will want the last availible slot in the first round. This will allow me to finish up on the Burgundians and maybe get another round with the fatimids.
I will probably need the full time regardless when I take it, but will be unavailible from Thursday untill Monday. (Easter Break)
Nice start, I like the tech plan. Spies are a very nice and very underused unit. (20 shields ATR). I predict we pick on the Poles, bash the Bulgars, and then buffalo the Byz on our own holy crusade.
If this fails we will consume much Unicum and lament the gold old days.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Ok, then I take it now.

Edit:
Err...I get an DataIO error when loading it; bede, which version are you playing?
And I thought you couldn't load 1.2+ in 1.15, but the other way around works in any case?