Does anyone else think the map just looks really unpleasantly cluttered?

[queenpea]

Part of the problem is that it's reasonable to build every building in every city. At least the first tier buildings. A form of city specialization could incentivize being more selective.

Another issue is that Towns can get pretty sprawled out with a total of 9 warehouse buildings. That's potentially 4 extra districts which is weird for a little fishing town.

And one more thing: some of the rural improvements, in particular unique improvements, look not so rural.

This is part of why I love and miss districts—they forced specialization as it was very difficult to build every district. Further, the district adjacency bonuses were mostly tied to geographic features as well as other districts.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Part of the problem is that it's reasonable to build every building in every city. At least the first tier buildings. A form of city specialization could incentivize being more selective.

Well, as I understand, many players already started specializing their settlements based on adjacency bonuses and it's a new layer of fun. I myself, just starting that sort of planning, but I wasn't great at city specialization in Civ5 and Civ6 either.

The idea is generally the same, adjacency bonuses define spots for particular buildings, plus Civ7 allows to intensify this with resources. Specialization with resource allocation is new and really powerful.

So, I'd say city specialization is already quite good, just hard to master.

 

[queenpea]

Well, as I understand, many players already started specializing their settlements based on adjacency bonuses and it's a new layer of fun. I myself, just starting that sort of planning, but I wasn't great at city specialization in Civ5 and Civ6 either.

The idea is generally the same, adjacency bonuses define spots for particular buildings, plus Civ7 allows to intensify this with resources. Specialization with resource allocation is new and really powerful.

So, I'd say city specialization is already quite good, just hard to master.

Generalization is a stronger strategy than specialization and there is no real incentive for specialization in Civ 7 other than to create challenges for oneself.

 

[UWHabs]

Generalization is a stronger strategy than specialization and there is no real incentive for specialization in Civ 7 other than to create challenges for oneself.

Yeah, I mean if I have a good mountain spot, I combine my culture buildings. Or get 3+ resources, then science and production. But once you have a decent enough city rolling, then usually I'm only limited in what buildings I want due to using space or whatever, not any specific specialization limit.

 

[user746383]

Can anyone here actually say they see that big, city-to-city sprawl of buildings on the map in the late game and can tell what building is what? I couldn’t tell you a single one.

 

[queenpea]

Can anyone here actually say they see that big, city-to-city sprawl of buildings on the map in the late game and can tell what building is what? I couldn’t tell you a single one.

No, you can’t, and I don’t really why you would need to, outside of simple curiosity.

 

[fantsu]

It is a bit silly how these cities in VII feel always neighboring with just one or two natural tiles in between. But its a video game... so cannot complain too much. I would like to see more cultivated land or pastures at least sprinkled in between hexes. Now the land looks like post-apocalyptic more than historic really early on.

In 70s wargames the map scale in grand strategy was usually around 8 km/5 miles per hex. So usually even large cities were only few hexes in lenght of the most dense urban area.
Developers should think about immersion of the map aesthetics also I guess, but I dont think they should go ahead of mechanics in a game like Civ.

 

[user746383]

Well, to see what each city has or for matching buildings in districts as a couple examples, but if I agree with you the information serves no intended purpose and also it’s cluttered and unattractive, what’s the point?

 

[queenpea]

Well, to see what each city has or for matching buildings in districts as a couple examples, but if I agree with you the information serves no intended purpose and also it’s cluttered and unattractive, what’s the point?

Yeah, I agree with you that it looks messy. I think though that Civ 7 has abandoned the specialized city model from Civ 6. Production is the most valuable currency in the game, and productive cities quickly can build all available buildings.

If you are trying to kneecap a rival civ’s culture or science, just attack a random city. If you are pillaging and want to heal your units, send them to a random town.

Nothing really matters outside of these very broad parameters.

 

[user746383]

I guess, but sometimes I want to capture wonders or a high science city or whatever without hovering over every tile in their empire. There was another thread recently that said the game is way more fun if you specialise cities, so who knows what’s intended really.

 

[queenpea]

I guess, but sometimes I want to capture wonders or a high science city or whatever without hovering over every tile in their empire. There was another thread recently that said the game is way more fun if you specialise cities, so who knows what’s intended really.

I don’t think the AI makes high science cities. They do have high yield cheats though.

I know the thread of which you speak, and I’m just not buying it. The only yield a city should prioritize is production. With high production, you can build whatever high powered city you choose.

The only time in the game where small yield differentials creates a considerable advantage is the very early game.

 

[user746383]

Sure, but there’s multiplayer? I feel like we are really stretching to find a reason why the information content on the map doesn’t matter. Not sure though.

If it really doesn’t matter at all, I’d love a way to scale down the building size so I don’t have to see it for the most part.

 

[Siptah]

I think some buildings are really easy to identify at a glance. For example, the antiquity and exploration era science buildings, or most of the uniques (especially if placed as unique quarter), and lighthouses, radio stations, or granaries. But yeah, many others require to zoom in a bit even when you are familiar with how they look.

 

[Siptah]

I don’t think the AI makes high science cities. They do have high yield cheats though.

I know the thread of which you speak, and I’m just not buying it. The only yield a city should prioritize is production. With high production, you can build whatever high powered city you choose.

The only time in the game where small yield differentials creates a considerable advantage is the very early game.

I‘m not buying production as most important yield. I‘ve often overemphasized production with the result that I run out of use for it, and either do useless or bad value stuff with it. For me, culture and science are more often the bottlenecks for advancing at a good pace, or happiness if I overextended, and it’s blocking my expected chained celebrations.

 

[MutilationWave]

Can anyone here actually say they see that big, city-to-city sprawl of buildings on the map in the late game and can tell what building is what? I couldn’t tell you a single one.

Sometimes I see that hazy air above a fire effect and I'm like yep, that's a brickyard! That's about it really.

 

[queenpea]

I‘m not buying production as most important yield. I‘ve often overemphasized production with the result that I run out of use for it, and either do useless or bad value stuff with it. For me, culture and science are more often the bottlenecks for advancing at a good pace, or happiness if I overextended, and it’s blocking my expected chained celebrations.

Production is used to build culture, science, gold, and happiness buildings. Not to mention wonders.

 

[queenpea]

Sure, but there’s multiplayer? I feel like we are really stretching to find a reason why the information content on the map doesn’t matter. Not sure though.

If it really doesn’t matter at all, I’d love a way to scale down the building size so I don’t have to see it for the most part.

I’m not saying I like it? I’m saying it’s pointless to examine the map in the way you are attempting. I understand the reflex, but the game is not designed to be played with this level of precision.

 

[Siptah]

Production is used to build culture, science, gold, and happiness buildings. Not to mention wonders.

Indeed, but I hardly experience it as the bottleneck, except for in modern.

 

[user746383]

It doesn’t seem particularly precise to know what’s in yours and your enemies cities but maybe that’s an old school civ perspective. I get what you’re saying now.

 

[cbum]

I frankly feel all the visual candy is highly distracting, and I waste a lot of time trying to find out what I need to make decisions. I don't know what the towns/cities contain, I can't see units, don't see which tiles are passable or slow, and on and on.
I really miss the ability in older Civ's to switch to the tactical view without all that clutter and be able think about where things are and what I want to move where.