Does playing MP improve SP skills?

donsig

donsig

Low level intermediary
Joined
Mar 6, 2001
Messages
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Location
Rochester, NY
I had played Civ I and Civ II SP for a number of years before attempting MP last year on the zone.
I considered myself a decent civver but got clobbered in my early MP attempts. MP is a vastly different experience from SP and it has been said in these forums that playing SP vs. AI is poor training for taking on humans in MP. I agree but I'd like to know if the MP experience has improved (or hurt) subsequent SP skills.
Now that I'm back to SP I think my playing style has changed though the change seems subtle. I'm much more worried about getting attacked early while at the same time keeping minimal defenses in my cities early on in order to build cities, build cities, build cities...

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Yes.MP has a steep learning curve.OCC and MP are the 2 fastest ways to learn about the game.You play the same but don't try the same tactics when attacking or defending.You'll need to learn how to get along without wonders as there is not much chance of getting all the ones you may be used to.

The best way is to get into a game that goes for abit.Alliances with good/experienced players will teach you much.
Combat is a lose and learn situation.Whatever #s you use for an attack against the ai,you can automatically double it for an attack vs human civ.You'll need to include a variety of units and be prepared to stack.Its difficult as the "victim" has an opportunity to rush units on your turn.Counter attacks are premium.You learn fairly quickly thru trail and error which units are worth building and which are not.

Yes I agree that MP may have hurt my solo play alittle.I also tend to go way overboard on military now.Better safe than sorry.This is a good policy for MP in general.But then...you must not be afraid to use it...which is another big difference in MP.To attack or not?...no longer is this decision trivial....

The ai is predictable....humans are not.
 
MP does teach you about war the hard way. I also tend to send too big and army to kill AI civs now. When I make contact now I tend to stop exploring and be on guard. When war comes I gear up for total war. I haven't quite figured out the price I'm paying down the road by not developing my cities the way I used to. I've stopped irrigating as much but still think a road network is important.

The MP games I've played rarely got to AD before the game collapsed so it's difficult to judge what the MP strategies would have come to if those games had played out.

MP also taught me that the Pyramids are more important than I once thought.
 
MP has made me a Marco Polo's Embassy freak. Trade is the first advance I go for now in any game (SP or MP) and I have to get the damn embassy - spies! spies! spies! before Mp I really didnt give a crap what any other civ was doing now I crave to be the one with the knowledge and also strive to keep what I am up to secret. MP has helped my SP game in that I am far more aggressive now.
 
How do you support 16 troops per city? If you are paranoid about bribing I suggest a house rule eliminating such nonsesne OR become a democracy.
 
Originally posted by SlowwHand:
Playing MP does nothing to aid you in SP,
and playing SP only develops bad habits if you intend to play MP.

Just the facts of the matter.
Click to expand...

I agree that SP strategies do not work in MP games. I'm not so sure that the MP experience does not aid SP. It does seem that returning to SP from MP makes one more aggressive in SP. I'm not sure if this is good or bad...
I think that when going back to SP one also tends to build more cities faster leaving their developement for later. This is something I learned from MP that I use in SP and think it is good. It could be that the good civvers figure that out in SP and only some of us (like me) have to learn it the hard way in MP.
I think one also re-evaluates the Wonders. Here's a question: are the 'good' Wonders in SP the same as the 'good' Wonders in MP?

[This message has been edited by donsig (edited July 19, 2001).]
 
EyesOFnight may back me up here...Hierophant you MUST be a newbie or simply faking that you are good.
spanking.gif


WHY...because your advise I will quote is again bollocks AT least in multiplay (you may get away with it in sp.)

Quote: "In mp usually best to be heavliy defended the best is to surround your town with 8 fortress and 2 troops each. that way that town cannot be bribed."

MY critism...

1. heavy defence requiring 16 units for the fortresses alone IS massive consumption of city building time for no real gain...why, as the city is now supporting a load of defensive units and threatens noone.

THE key is to bring the war away from your land to theirs by attacking...strong defense is not a major requirement concerning cities...but aggressive action vs enemies at the frontier is essential.

2. the 8 fortresses with 2 units each...all the enemy need do is kill one unit to break through...two at most!

kill one of the two defensive units in one fortress and you can bribe the remaining unit. You then can bribe the city...gain the units in the city and ALL 14 units in the fortresses in the squares adjacent to the city...
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THIS ADVICE BY HIERPOHANT IS FLAWED
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as it gives your enemies a grand prize easy to win AND takes alot of production TIME in the city and support to implement.

Hierophant you are a useless adviser and Sun Tzu WOULD behead you!
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If you disagree then contest my logic!
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AS for the topic then I say that mp improves sp and vice versa as learning how to best promote your empire and having a working knowledge of the whole game in your head is VITAL for making the best decisions in-game.

grad.gif


 
Originally posted by SlowwHand:
Playing MP does nothing to aid you in SP,
and playing SP only develops bad habits if you intend to play MP.
Click to expand...

I would even go as far to say that MP strategies can hurt you in SP. In MP you have to be ready for anything and be more aggresive, which means having your cities well defended and having troops to harass the other human players.

In SP you can leave your cities relatively uncovered and focus on expansion. You know the AI will not mount a cooridinated assault and it is very predictable.

If you try and use the same stratgies in MP and SP, you are not going to do very well in either one. They are two different games, but happen to use the same pieces.
 
I´ll gladly play anyone...given decent settings!

As for the post...you obviously don´t stand by your advise.

If you play out the advise you give out then you´ll lose...somehow I guess you won´t!

You ARE a MOST pathetic adviser! You advise blows goats...challenge my logic.

I´ll be back home from holidays on the 14th of august...lets arrange the challenge...I may lose, BUT NOT IF THE ADIVSE YOU GIVE ON HOW TO PLAY AND WHAT YOU DO IN-GAME IS THE SAME.


[This message has been edited by kittenOFchaos (edited July 20, 2001).]
 
Originally posted by HIEROPHANT:
how about deity large world village only 1x1 production. (no city bribes). this make the game more of a challenge. only AI bribeing cities is ok.

[This message has been edited by HIEROPHANT (edited July 20, 2001).]
Click to expand...

That's not fair settings!!!! Your defence was to protect against bribes. And Kittens attack plan was to bribe the city and units. If you disallow city bribes....then WTH are you playing for???

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<IMG SRC="http://images.honesty.com/imagedata/h/207/85/32078598.gif" border=0> I AM CANADIAN! <IMG SRC="http://images.honesty.com/imagedata/h/207/85/32078598.gif" border=0>
CivFanatics Moderator and Tech Support
CornEmpire Owner/Operator
My Civ 2 Scenario Page.
 
how about deity large world village only 1x1 production. (no city bribes). this make the game more of a challenge. only AI bribeing cities is ok.

Those are newbie settings. No experienced player plays with AI's and they certainly don't play on a Large map. They don't play on a large map with 6 players, let alone just 2. Why anyone would waste their time beating you is beyond me. You are a complete moron and it shows.
 

Kittenofchaos maybe we should play game so you can lose that way you wont think i am a newbie besides that i going to beat shadowdales hall of fame score on the deity level.
Click to expand...

BTW, HIEROPHANT, Shadowdale's score is already beaten by a guy in Portugal. His score is currently over 30,000 with about 100 games turns left. He discovered the score is reset to 0 when somewhere between 30,000 and 32,000.

I only played one game to a max score (two years ago, deity large map), and I can tell you it was so boring in the end that I've never even had a desire to try another one like that. If you're shooting for a score in the mid-30's, we probably won't be seeing much of you on CFC for a while, as that really takes a lot of time
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. And I know EyesOfNight will miss you greatly if you're not here
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.


by EyesOfNight to HIEROPHANT (or maybe Cornmaster):

...
You are a complete moron and it shows.
Click to expand...

Eyes, you really need to be more subtle... I wonder if you realize how it makes you look to say that. You're not insulting anyone because people just lower their opinion of you when you do that. You don't have to like everyone and everything they say, but you should be civil and just stick to your main points about the game, not personal stuff.

Again, there is more of an art to subtlty. If you really think someone is a 'moron', just make your case with facts, strategies, etc. about the game, and let everyone else decide on their own, LOL! But even at that, there is a difference in a 'moron' and making mistakes, not having experience, approaching things differently, etc.

So try and be a +, not a -
beerchug.gif
 
Originally posted by EyesOfNight:
how about deity large world village only 1x1 production. (no city bribes). this make the game more of a challenge. only AI bribeing cities is ok.

Those are newbie settings. No experienced player plays with AI's and they certainly don't play on a Large map. They don't play on a large map with 6 players, let alone just 2. Why anyone would waste their time beating you is beyond me. You are a complete moron and it shows.
Click to expand...

You are so full of **** it makes MY stomach ache.
No, it's not a 2x duel on small world.
So what?
Play some Civ, and build a Civ.
Until you can, stow it.



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It's In The Way That You Use It
Tuatha De Danann Tribe
ICQ 51553293
 
the game is not a challenge if there is bribes and let be realist in a real war bribing cities does not exist. i guess a lot people hate large maps are afraid to play me a game in deity. so cid loopped score where it goes to zero bummer. I already know that would happen in my game too.
Also anyone that can not handle my settings i consider a NEWBIE. it also seems a lot of people wont mention any names but they cant handle barbarains very well.

[This message has been edited by HIEROPHANT (edited July 21, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by HIEROPHANT (edited July 21, 2001).]
 
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