Does TSL have 'fairer' games?

[Cao Cao Mengde]

I've played several TSL games on Emperor difficulty, and each of those have provided a remarkably enjoyable and balanced experience. I'm curious if that has to do with the more limited space, the lack of goodie huts, or what- but it's given me far more enjoyable experiences than any of my other ones. Has anyone else run into that situation?

If so, what's the best way to "recreate" those settings on say, a normal game, rather than using the TSL script?

(Just so I don't already know what the world looks like each time )

 

[Calyxx]

I have actually noticed the opposite in my two TSL plays. For example: start as Rome --> capture both Greek settlers with starting warrior before a city is founded --> do whatever, you started with 3 cities.

Playing TSL Earth was very fun, but I wouldn't call it balanced.

 

[Cao Cao Mengde]

I have actually noticed the opposite in my two TSL plays. For example: start as Rome --> capture both Greek settlers with starting warrior before a city is founded --> do whatever, you started with 3 cities.

Playing TSL Earth was very fun, but I wouldn't call it balanced.

Never had that! Closest was ransacking Victoria with Harald in 1400 BC. Ahh...good times...

 

[soundwaveuk]

I seem to be having a lot more fun on the firaxis tsl map as well, compared to the random maps. I thought it was because Ive always enjoyed playing on Earth, but there does seem to be something about the geography that makes the matches more engaging.

To try to avoid starts that are too close to the AI I do tend to select my opponents. Get a nice spread that way, and Australia can be a nice opponent due to how isolated they are.

 

[Duuk]

I've always enjoyed playing more clustered, smaller map starts. Makes early settlement much more strategic.

 

[Sagax]

Have you played as China? I feel like TSL China almost unfair in the hands of a competent player.

 

[AJ22PIZZA]

I don't think so since geography isn't fair. For example England can settle 3, maybe 4 cities on Great Britain and then they're stuck until the embarking tech. On the other hand America, Brazil, or Australia can just chill out isolated. Although that may have to do with which civs have been released...

 

[Cao Cao Mengde]

Have you played as China? I feel like TSL China almost unfair in the hands of a competent player.

It depends- I did a game as China and was flanked by Japan, Scythia and Russia. It had a pretty good map spread, and Scythia in particular can be very dangerous if you don't prep ahead. Thankfully I know my history so I made sure western China and all of those lovely hills were all mine and well fortified .

I don't think so since geography isn't fair. For example England can settle 3, maybe 4 cities on Great Britain and then they're stuck until the embarking tech. On the other hand America, Brazil, or Australia can just chill out isolated. Although that may have to do with which civs have been released...

I can see where you're coming from, but at the same time I'm not entirely sure I agree because of how limited the luxuries are. Actually, I think that's another aspect that I really enjoy because the relative lack of amenities really forces you to up your war or diplomacy game, lest you get buried by discontent! So even if the US, Brazil etc have room to spread, if they don't meet other folks they could run into a serious issue of lacking amenities!

 

[Agent327]

Not necessarily. (Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all?)

I've played several TSL games on Emperor difficulty, and each of those have provided a remarkably enjoyable and balanced experience. , snip>
(Just so I don't already know what the world looks like each time )

I have actually noticed the opposite in my two TSL plays. For example: start as Rome --> capture both Greek settlers with starting warrior before a city is founded --> do whatever, you started with 3 cities.

Playing TSL Earth was very fun, but I wouldn't call it balanced.

Perhaps try giant map? China usually ends up denouncing every other player ' cause mo' Wonders (who ever thought of this inane design idea?) and being owned by India, Japan or both. Also noticed the time honoured ' China must expand North' meme.

 

[Photi]

I don't think so since geography isn't fair. For example England can settle 3, maybe 4 cities on Great Britain and then they're stuck until the embarking tech. On the other hand America, Brazil, or Australia can just chill out isolated. Although that may have to do with which civs have been released...

Waiting for Scotland...

 

[Haig]

Don't know about fair, but the Firaxis TSL map sure is FUN.

I think people underestimate the standard size earth map, I know the mod maps give these ultragigantic earths which is cool too, but the standard size makes for a compact game where there's always somehting going on.

Also, as the civs spawn in specific spots, if you set all civs to random the game is different every time. Besides fractal it's probably my most played map of Civ 6.

I usually put all civs to random except I want England and Japan into the game, it's cool to see how they colonize from their starting islands.

 

[DWilson]

The TSL Earth Map can be quite fun, but if you want it balanced you have to break it down in such a way that you'll almost always have three, even four, of the same civs every time.

It would need to look like:

North America: (Always at least one, probably almost always both)
1. America
2. The Aztecs

South America: (Almost always)
3. Brazil

Oceania: (Always)
4. Australia

Africa: (Preferably the first, possibly either of the others as well or as replacement)
5a. Kongo
5b. Egypt
5c. Arabia

East Asia: (Almost always one of the first two, occasionally the third)
6a. China
6b. Japan
6c. India

West Asia/East Europe: (Almost always one, rarely two)
7a. Sumer
7b. Persia
7c. Scythia (maybe not if using 6c)
7d. Egypt (not if using either 5b or 5c for Africa)
7e. Arabia (not if using either 5b or 5c for Africa)
7.5f. Russia
7.5g. Macedonian
7.5h. Greece (Gorgo or Pericles)
7.5i. Poland

Europe: (Almost always only one, rarely two, avoid using an 8.5 if using a 7.5)
8a. England
8b. Norway
8c. France
8d. Spain
8e. Germany
8.5f. Rome
8.5g. Poland
8.5h. Russia
8.5i. Macedonian
8.5j. Greece

 

[gettingfat]

Have you played as China? I feel like TSL China almost unfair in the hands of a competent player.

China is surely in the top 3, if not the most favorable on TSL earth. Hong Kong is just a free city. India never invests much on military so the richly resourced India is in the pocket. Japan rarely expands early so it makes little impact. Only when Scythian is in the game there is a bit of challenge.

 

[spfun]

how hard is it to program settler+military unit at all times until a city is settled? These deity, free settlers diminish the difficulty completely and is worrying that its still not fixed.

 

[Disgustipated]

I wouldn't say they are fairer, but they are more interesting. The map in general is more strategically interesting. I wish the continents map generator could generate continents as good as Earth map.

I really wish England and Japan could do more, however. Because I find them to be interesting civs. They always struggle in my game on TSL Earth. I wish the tech to get travel on coast tiles was easier to get. Australia does very well, especially in science. Unfortunately Spain suffers every game with this map, I won't use them anymore.

civs that do fairly well are Pedro, Teddy Roosevelt (sometimes), Kongo (although not my last game as Egypt took much of their prime settling spots), and China always does well.

I've done pure old world starts before (not on this TSL map, but a user made one), and they can be fun. I really feel the Americas and Australia should be barren until later in the game. In that case I'd recommend Kongo, Egypt, Persia or Scythia, China, India, and 2 European civs like one around Macedon/Greece and maybe France or Norway.

I just wish they had a large map option. I don't want that mod that gives a gigantic size, that's far too much for my computer. But I wouldn't mind a little bit bigger.

Hong Kong is just a free city

I'm actually firing up a new game as China right now. Thing is, Hong Kong's bonuses are too big and I don't want to give them up. I don't like conquering useful city states. Is it really worth it?
My new game I'm doing what I suggest above with all Old World start. I have Kongo, Arabia, Persia, India, China (me), Scythia (since it's mentioned they are tough to deal with as China), France, and Macedon. I may not play the whole game, but I want to see how this plays out.

 

[Ferocitus]

I just wish they had a large map option. I don't want that mod that gives a gigantic size, that's far too much for my computer. But I wouldn't mind a little bit bigger.

Gedemon's YnAMP has a variety of map sizes. Do none of them suit you and your computer limitations?

 

[Disgustipated]

Gedemon's YnAMP has a variety of map sizes. Do none of them suit you and your computer limitations?

I'll have to check it out.

My game above went well, haven't finished though. I got involved in watching some youtube videos and never finished. Scythia did indeed settle towards me (as China), and they attacked me. I was 2 turns away from ancient walls in my city Tibet. They brought a lot of horseman, but luckily I had Seoul and Hong Kong on my side, but I've been fighting them for envoys ever since. No one else posed any threat, even after DOW'ing me. Thought Scythia might attack again, but never did.

I'm getting burned out on that map. Sometimes there just isn't enough room to build the stuff I want to build. Ended up with 2 cities in the China area, 1 in Japan, 1 in Thailand area, 1 in Singapore, another 2 in the East Indies islands, and 5 in Australia. Australian cities are the only ones with enough room to build a lot of stuff. I'll have to check out that large map.

 

[GIO888]

TSL really launched Civ VI as superfun for me.

Totally agree whoever said the Standard map is awesome, whoever you play as, almost up there with the burning-candle-at-both-ends required by final version of the holy Civ IV!

 

[Ferocitus]

My son perfectly summed up what makes TSL, and YnAMP in particular, such a
delight for me and others in my circle of family and friends. That is the
narrative that one (ok, ok, us ultra nerds!) develop as the game develops.
It just flows so much easier and more obviously with Earth continents,
cities and features than with random blobs.

It is certainly not what everyone likes, or wants from a game, but I've been
hooked on YnAMP for several years. I wrote up my PhD thesis while playing
Civ5 on one computer and watching 200+ episodes of StarGate (and sequels)
on another. I never ever want to see another StarGate again, but I'm so
glad Civ6 came out now that I'm semi-retired and have loads of time.
I almost feel like doing another PhD!

Thanks Gedemon! Next time I'll definitely include you in the acknowledgement
section.

 

[MaximusPlatypus]

I know this thread is not about that, but I'd like to add an endorsement of YNAMP "Greatest Earth". It's bigger than Firaxis', but it runs fine on my mediocre laptop. Also the islands of England and Japan are upscaled quite a bit, and I do like to play the civs that do coastal settles well. Australia is almost even more OP as the Uluru/Petra city will produce some of the most ridiculous tile yields in the game.