Doesn't [cityname]-cede in peace offer mean you get possession of the city?

[enar]

I'm playing my first game as Australia (at Prince level, as I haven't played for a few months). Around the year 100AD, England and Rome attacked me in a formal war. Rome didn't have a way to attack me directly, but England had just established Bristol near my city of Perth and their city of Newcastle-upon-Tyne was in easy reach. I swatted the warriors England sent against me and levied my nearby ally in Toronto for a bunch of mercenary archers and a few warriors.

I took Bristol in three turns (mostly spent just getting the archers into position to shoot). Rome offered to make peace, which I accepted, but I refused the offer of peace from England. It took about five more turns to move my mercenary archers through the rainforest to get into attack formation against Newcastle. Two rounds of archery, and the city was about to fall. England offers a good deal for peace, including ceding the city to me, plus cash and luxury goods.

I accepted the offer, but England retained ownership of Newcastle. Did I misunderstand what "cede" means, or did the game ignore that part of the treaty?

 

[Disgustipated]

Are you sure it wasn't Bristol they were ceding? Ceding is still buggy in my opinion, as the city will grow regardless if they cede it or not. And they will still complain you occupy their city regardless. Most likely it was Bristol they were ceding.

 

[myclan]

I had also found a bug in ceding cities. I just conquered 4 cities inculding the capaital of Alex. When making peace he refused to cede all 4 cities to me but I don't want to return any cities. So at last he agreed to cede only one city to me and I accepted the deal. But I found all 4 cities didn't have the penalty of occupation and just like they had been ceded. I think it is a bug.

 

[enar]

Are you sure it wasn't Bristol they were ceding? Ceding is still buggy in my opinion, as the city will grow regardless if they cede it or not. And they will still complain you occupy their city regardless. Most likely it was Bristol they were ceding.

No, I was certain it was Newcastle she offered to cede, as I was about to take it anyway. About 500 years later, the two did the same trick with formal declarations of war, so I brought in my mercenaries again and this time I took Newcastle by storm. Neither Rome nor England offered a peace treaty, so after putting up a screen of units to block anything coming in from London or Liverpool, and massed on Rome ... and then I realized it was a couple of hours past the point I needed to go to bed, so Rome will fall another day. ;-)

 

[enar]

I had also found a bug in ceding cities. I just conquered 4 cities inculding the capaital of Alex. When making peace he refused to cede all 4 cities to me but I don't want to return any cities. So at last he agreed to cede only one city to me and I accepted the deal. But I found all 4 cities didn't have the penalty of occupation and just like they had been ceded. I think it is a bug.

She didn't offer to cede Newcastle the second time, so I'll keep a careful eye after I take Rome if the cede mechanism works as it should (hopefully later this afternoon)..

 

[historix69]

If you are not sure if a peace deal will work, save the game before you agree to the peace deal. After 10 turns of war you can negotiate with AI any time you want about peace, so you don't have to accept any offer during AI turn.
Warmonger points for taking/keeping cities will be effective in the turn after the peace deal. This may result in a series of denounciations if you took/kept too many cities in a later era.

 

[Locke_Daemonfire]

I had also found a bug in ceding cities. I just conquered 4 cities inculding the capaital of Alex. When making peace he refused to cede all 4 cities to me but I don't want to return any cities. So at last he agreed to cede only one city to me and I accepted the deal. But I found all 4 cities didn't have the penalty of occupation and just like they had been ceded. I think it is a bug.

Whether intentional or not, ceding doesn't have anything to do with the occupation penalty currently. I believe based on Victoria's testing, it only adds warmongering points, so I usually just don't have the AI cede anything. It may allow trading the city away as its only benefit.

No, I was certain it was Newcastle she offered to cede, as I was about to take it anyway.

She cannot offer to cede something you haven't already taken. She can offer to give it to you, but it will not say cede next to it. Either you are mistaken or it is a weird bug (which is certainly possible).

 

[enar]

She cannot offer to cede something you haven't already taken. She can offer to give it to you, but it will not say cede next to it. Either you are mistaken or it is a weird bug (which is certainly possible).

Ah, I didn't know that, but I was still certain it was Newcastle being offered, not Bristol. As you say, perhaps a rare bug. Unfortunately, I didn't save anywhere close to that event, so I doubt it could be recreated.

 

[enar]

If you are not sure if a peace deal will work, save the game before you agree to the peace deal. After 10 turns of war you can negotiate with AI any time you want about peace, so you don't have to accept any offer during AI turn.
Warmonger points for taking/keeping cities will be effective in the turn after the peace deal. This may result in a series of denounciations if you took/kept too many cities in a later era.

We were still early in the game, so I wasn't worried about warmonger points yet. I'll try to keep that tip in mind next time I'm offered a peace treaty.

 

[historix69]

Unfortunately, I didn't save anywhere close to that event,

I have autosave configured to cover the last 10 turns ... this allows to go back some turns if I want to try different ways or replay situations which did not work as intended due to bugs or misunderstanding from my side ...

 

[Archon_Wing]

Ceding is different from giving a city. It simply relinquishes the claim to you, meaning that they and friends may no longer denounce you "for holding one of their cities" or citing that as a reason for war anymore. Though they'd probably hate you anyways for warmongering, so....

The "not growing" thing seems to be misinformation spread around; people probaly mistakened the typical "revolt" mode a city goes through when it's been captured and does nothing until it comes out of it, much like its predecessors. Because they certainly do grow. But usually the damage to the city has had caused a lack out of housing, thus creating the illusion of not growing when you should really be buying granaries and builders and whatnot instead of waiting for the ravaged city to rebuild its own infrastructure.

tl;dr "occupation" and cede are 2 different things. It makes sense, of course. The political claim of owning land, and the actual military forces holding the land are often 2 topics of discussion.

 

[Locke_Daemonfire]

Ceding is different from giving a city. It simply relinquishes the claim to you, meaning that they and friends may no longer denounce you "for holding one of their cities" or citing that as a reason for war anymore. Though they'd probably hate you anyways for warmongering, so....

The "not growing" thing seems to be misinformation spread around; people probaly mistakened the typical "revolt" mode a city goes through when it's been captured and does nothing until it comes out of it, much like its predecessors.

They will still have a -18 modifier for holding one of their cities if they cede the city to you. Logically, it seems like it should be a benefit of ceding, but it doesn't currently operate that way.

 

[Archon_Wing]

They will still have a -18 modifier for holding one of their cities if they cede the city to you. Logically, it seems like it should be a benefit of ceding, but it doesn't currently operate that way.

Well, they should hate you anyways, but at that point their opinion doesn't matter anymore. But if it all it does is give you more warmongering points, then it would be a really bad option. That should be fixed.

But in any case, it shouldn't have anything to do with occupation or growth, so I just wanted to get that out of the way as it is quite important to know these things.

 

[Victoria]

But I found all 4 cities didn't have the penalty of occupation and just like they had been ceded

So the only thing I have found with ceding is

The city does not count as your for a points victory if not ceded.
I have not test the ability of great people to work correctly in non ceded cities
Ceding does give additional warmonger so seems silly to do, especially as the opposition put a high price on ceding you a city. You will get a better deal without accepting a ceded city... and less warmonger.
Occupation goes at the end of war regardless of ceded city.

 

[Disgustipated]

The city does not count as your for a points victory

Wait a ceded city does not give you points for a points victory or unceded city? Seems backwards to me.

then I realized it was a couple of hours past the point I needed to go to bed,

The bane of many a civilization game. I know the feeling too well.

 

[Photi]

@Victoria i was popping and using great people all night last night in my non-ceded conquered cities of New Orleans and Washington. seemed to be working fine.

 

[Victoria]

So @Photi, something like +2 in each library will work there?... that's the type of ability I was wanting to check.

@Disgustipated a non ceded does not give victory, I'll rewrite

 

[Photi]

So @Photi, something like +2 in each library will work there?... that's the type of ability I was wanting to check.

yes, just confirmed. at the current point in the game, i am receiving 56 Great Scientist points per turn. 15 campuses + 13 libraries + 13 universities for 41 pts, +15 for divine spark =56

with encampments, similar story. i only actually built 1, all the rest were acquisitions from Rome, and i am receiving 17 Great General points per turn. all Trajans cities were conquered except the one i got in the peace deal, but it was a newish city with no encampment.

i no longer ever cede in the peace deals based on your own work showing it's counter-productive, and i always return one city, again thanks to you. it's working great, i've taken out Persia, DOWed Catherine, and conquered many cities from Teddy and Trajan, and i have like 4 allies including Trajan and Catherine (i did liberate one of her cities) and i think Teddy and me are on the ins we ea other.

edit: and now i see i got your question wrong. +2 from library, you mean from a great scientist effect? not sure about that one, but i did recruit Albert Einstien who is giving my universities +4. unfortunately, all those campuses were built after they were my cities, so maybe this throws off the conclusion you are hoping for.

 

[Victoria]

Nope, that's good enough, non ceded city with a uni doing +4 sound adequate.

 

[Photi]

one peculiarity is that i also got Newton (+2 to universities) way back in like 300 AD, and his bonus seems to be working in all my unis except the one in Aquileia the Roman city. +16 science there when all the rest are at +20 (+4 base +2 Newton +4 Einstein x 100% policy = 20). not sure what is going on there.