Domestic Department - Term 9

General_W · Sep 4, 2006

Sorry about that everyone!
Good job playing the save Chamnix – exactly what I would have ordered. It’ll be your dept. here soon anyway. :thumbsup:

Since I missed my update, here are a few goodies for everyone from turn 178…

We build Copernicus!

Now look at how beautiful Athens is!

And here’s our fully developed presidential palace:

greekguy · Sep 4, 2006

i agree with azza, don't build frigates. we should concentrate on galleons for the time being, since they can be upgraded to transports in the future. frigates will be useless to us when we invade D'Nuts.

Chamnix · Sep 4, 2006

Tough call. The problem is I think there is a reasonable chance we won't invade until marines which are 30+ turns away. Galleons will do nothing except cost upkeep all that time.

I agree that frigates are pretty useless. However, they can kill KISS' galleys on our fish, and, starting in 10 turns, clear the seas of Dnut boats and start pathetically attempting to bombard Dnut's coast. Once we can build more effective boats, the frigates can be disbanded for shields in one of our 1 spt bomber towns.

peter grimes · Sep 4, 2006

The advantage of Frigates, at least for the next handful of turns, is that they are the strongest attack vessel we can build. Truly they aren't the strongest we're likely to get before the end of the game, but we must continue to maximize each shield. We need some Frigates now, at least for the short term.

gbno1fan · Sep 5, 2006

I oppose the construction of a navy in the present time.

The navy can come in the future. For now, we don't need it. It is better to use the gold (unit costs!) for research or stockpile it for rushing.

peter grimes · Sep 5, 2006

Do you oppose the construction of 2 or 3 frigates? I think they are worth the cost. I'll try a Chamnix:

For 2 gpt in upkeep we can keep KISS from stationing galleys on 2 fish. Those two fish provide at least 2 gpt, therefore the Frigates pay for themselves after we invest the shields. Plus, we get to reduce KISS's visibility.

....are you buying any of this?...

Chamnix · Sep 5, 2006

Here I am writing a long detailed response and peter tries to steal my thunder before I can post

. Anyway, I doubt the fish in general will provide 2 gpt since most of them are in corrupt towns. They will provide extra fpt, but I wasn't even going to try to calculate the value of that. Instead, here is my (much more long-winded) analysis:

I’m not sure what the other option is, but actually, after looking at some numbers, it may really be better economically to build frigates and treat them as mobile shields than not to build them.

Consider the following hypothetical situation: we have a town that completes something on turn 179 (our next turn) and is at 12 spt. I’m going to ignore the fact that the spt will change at the end of our Golden Age because it complicates things, but I don’t think it changes the conclusion. Also assume we will complete Flight on turn 194. If we look at 2 options:

1. Build wealth for 7 turns, then switch to a bomber prebuild on turn 186 to compete a bomber on 195. We get an extra 3 gpt (based on 12 spt) for 7 turns making us a gain of 21 gold.

2. Build a frigate for 5 turns (a frigate is 60 shields, right?), build wealth for 2 turns, then switch to a bomber prebuild. We get 3 gpt for 2 turns = + 6 gold. The frigate costs us 2 gpt for turns 184-195 which yields -22 gold. We are left with a loss of 16 gold.

However, on turn 195 we can disband the frigate in a town that is at 1 spt where we would like to rush a bomber. We gain 15 shields in that town saving ourselves 60 gold in rushing costs.

I know nobody has recommended building wealth in towns where frigates have started, but what are the other options? In my hypothetical, we want to start the bomber prebuild on 186 so we have 84 shields to work with until prebuild time. Assuming the town already has a library, a marketplace, and maybe a courthouse and a university, what else could we want?

If we really hate frigates, then I guess it is even more economical to build wealth first for 2 turns then the frigate, or, even better, a cavalry to live for a shorter period then disband for 20 shields, but I also would like to get those galleys off our fish and maybe take a pot shot or two at the Nuts coastline.

General_W · Sep 5, 2006

Very soon this will no longer be my department – but these discussions have made me also a fan of a limited investment in Frigates.

Frigates are indeed 60 shields, and I think that 2 or 3 of them will serve us quite well. There is great psychological value in preventing our enemies from watching our coats… as well as the direct value of protecting fish tiles and guarding against any Dnut attempt at bombing our coastline.

That's my 2 cents anyway.

General_W · Sep 5, 2006

Exciting news!!

CivAssist is working again!
Apparently, our "embassy closing" with the Dnuts has fixed the trade bug.

Even though I'll be leaving the Domestic office soon – I will be glad to post the data from CAII as needed/requested by incoming minister Chamnix.

However – now that we have 114 cities :wow:

the new city production screen requires MANY copy/pastes to get all in one shot!
(That compares to 54 known Dnuts towns and 13 known Celt towns :clap:

)

Here's what it looks like from save file 179 (pre-play)

Here's the Economy shot:

Other exciting news – I can now say definitively that we have 183 workers and 59 slaves!
EDIT: we also have 66 Specialists working out of 438 Citizens.
That's 54 Beaker heads and 12 cops.

General_W · Sep 5, 2006

MIA Domestic Update:
Turn 179

Science Update: Scientific Method – 934/3000 - (3 turns left)

Treasury: 811 (+285?)

Black Purse: 159 (+2)

Golden Age: 3 turns left…

Domesitc Headline News:
* Civ Assist is Back!
* We have 183 workers and 59 slaves!
* We also have 66 Specialists (54 Beaker heads and 12 cops)

CivAssist Update:

Proposed Domestic Orders for turn 179:

Cities:
* Manifest Destiny – Finish Settler, Start Bomber
* Kurtz – Finish Settler, Start Bomber
* Antville – Finish Factory, Start Coal Plant
* Phoenopolis – Finish Factory, Start Coal Plant
* Gathering Storm – Finish Worker, Start Worker
* Dismal Swamp – Finish Worker, Start Worker
* Psaria Pylos – Finish Worker, Start Worker
* Special Farm – Finish Worker, Start Worker
* Far University – Finish Worker, Start Worker
* Plains of Victory - Finish Worker, Start Worker
* MIA Study Abroad - Finish Worker, Start Worker
* River of Success - Finish Worker, Start Worker
* Beakers for MIA - Finish Worker, Start Worker
* Grape Grog - Finish Worker, Start Worker

* I've made these orders from CivAssist – haven't been home to open the save yet – so it's possible something extra will complete. I'm sure you can handle it!

Settlement Plan 1.1:

Spoiler Towns to Settle and names :

Economy:
* Lux 0% - Science to 50%? (or just get it in 3 turns!)

Please post any and all comments or suggestions here!

From the Desk of the Domestic Minister:
* I've now updated the settlement plan – let me know if I missed something.

* I've also updated the technology plan. Trying to get everything cleaned up for an orderly transition of power after the next turn. The tech plan may need to be adjusted based on a better estimate of when we'll get the ToE… but I'd advocate that it might be a good idea to try to time it to finish on turn 195… so that we can do the amazing… and get Flight on 195 as shown in my plan.

:salute:

Spoiler Current Tech Plan :

Chamnix · Sep 5, 2006

Being a little indecisive on how many workers we need, are we

?

General_W · Sep 6, 2006

indecisive? I believe my last comment on the issue was to keep 10 towns building workers (which we are)...

Did I miss some of my own hand-wringing? :lol:

Chamnix · Sep 6, 2006

I misunderstood - I thought you said we wanted 20 more workers, then we would stop building them, but I'm not sure now where I got that idea :blush:

.

General_W · Sep 6, 2006

lol - nah, we're only at 1.6 workers per city... and with nearly 80 bomber pre-builds... I think leaving 10 towns on worker duty is still a very reasonable balance.

General_W · Sep 6, 2006

MIA Domestic Update:
Turn 180

Science Update: Scientific Method – 1666/3000 - (2 turns left)

Treasury: 1,255 (+414?)

Black Purse: 161 (+2)

Golden Age: 2 turns left…

Domesitc Headline News:
* Huge retirement bash thrown for outgoing President Chamnix

* Economists predict that General_W's stepping down as Domestic Minister will bring MIA's golden age to a halt in the next couple years.

CivAssist Update:

Proposed Domestic Orders for turn 180:

Cities:
* Ephebe – Finish Factory, Start Coal Plant
* Aliakmon Stronghold – Finish Factory, Start Coal Plant
* Look Here - Finish Factory, Start Coal Plant
* Ithaca – Finish Settler, Start Settler (*we're actually 1 settler short of finishing the plan)
* Olympus Camp – Finish Settler, Start Bomber

* I've made these orders from CivAssist – haven't been home to open the save yet – so it's possible something extra will complete. I'm sure you can handle it!

Settlement Plan 1.1:

Spoiler Towns to Settle and names :

Economy:
* Lux 0% - Science to 40%? (or just get it in 2 turns!)

Please post any and all comments or suggestions here!

From the Desk of the Domestic Minister:
* This will be my last set of orders as Domestic Minister. It's been a pleasure serving in this office.
I'm very pleased with where I'm leaving this ministry, and I hope everyone else is also.

To the continued glory of MIA!!

:salute:

Spoiler Current Tech Plan :

Domestic Department - Term 9

General_W

Councilor & Merlot Noble

greekguy

Missed the Boat

Chamnix

Chasing Time

peter grimes

...

gbno1fan

Emperor

peter grimes

...

Chamnix

Chasing Time

General_W

Councilor & Merlot Noble

General_W

Councilor & Merlot Noble

General_W

Councilor & Merlot Noble

Chamnix

Chasing Time

General_W

Councilor & Merlot Noble

Chamnix

Chasing Time

General_W

Councilor & Merlot Noble

General_W

Councilor & Merlot Noble

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