Domestic issues, science and military issues from the MODA's point of view in 1600 AD

[TheViking]

The only tech from the current science plan that we haven't discovered is refrigeration so we need a new science plan. Amphibious warfare (AW) would be very useful so we can build port facilities and then veteran ships. For planning purposes it would be nice to know if we can research AW next. Also railroad would be useful despite drawbacks, especially since we are not delivering many caravans at the moment. After this, MODALTSIR (provided it is followed) calls for shutting down science and not discovering industrialization until we have finished building the infrastructure we can build with the techs we currently have and also stockpiled caravans. Once science is restarted the MODA's highest priority tech is automobile so we can build superhighways for more trade.

Everything is getting ready for invading Africa. We have 2 Dou cavalries ready, one in RF and one in Dou. Also there is cavalry near Duke's Creek that we can use. These are all non-veteran but having veterans would be nice, we could build barracks and one cavalry unit in LC (Dou is getting very busy now). Barracks plus veteran alpine troops could be built in LP. RF could build a port facility and then a veteran destroyer. Some already built engineers would be sent to Africa. We acually have three galleons we can use, two in RF and one sitting idly in Duke's Creek which should IPRB riflemen so the galleon can leave. We also have galleons in BS, Igl and LP. We should probably also send at least one diplomat.

At the same time the MODA would like to draw the military advisor's attention to the fact that there is a great 'window' now for military operations against our enemies since no AI civ has discovered (or is even researching) gunpowder but we have discovered tactics. A relatively small army of veteran cavalry, alpine troops and cannons could therefore cause big problems in Hell. We could invade western Hell as originally planned but another interesting possibility would be to occupy the fortress east of Athens with something like 2 engineers, 2 cannons, 2 cavalries and 1 alpine troop and then capture Athens (Athens has Sun Tzu). The MODA is willing to devote some resources to this in eastern Coresux if there is interest in this. Maybe like this: One cannon from each of EF and FW, one cavalry from each of Naer and Ipec and alpine troops from VM and possibly more (maybe 1 or 2 cavalries from Dou). It it also possible to attack Athens with a destroyer that could be built in e.g. Superstorms, we have fast ships and it takes only 4 turns to reach Athens from Superstorms.

Input please, build queue polls will be posted tomorrow and the discussion here may affect what they are going to look like.

 

[RedBull]

Due to its size and its War Academy, the Greeks will prove to be a totally different civilization to conquer than the Zulus. Attacking the Greeks looks to require a, if you will, shock and awe campaign, involving no less than two dozen land units, a half dozen war capable sea units, and a similar number of sea transport units. It would require a lightning fast sea strike to cripple the capital of Athens, but only in conjunction with a simultaneous amphibious landing. It would require the devotion of an entire continent to the war effort, and thousands of gold to produce troops.

It is therefore the recommendation of the Military Office to wait until the completion of the war in Africa to begin to stockpile funds for the assimilation of the Greeks.

It is also the recommendation of the Military Office that we technologically rush, after the war in Africa, for armor and transports. A strike force of armor in transports, in combination with a fleet of cruisers (or the most modern warships available at the time), as well as a support crew of engineers for railroad building purposes, will prove to embarrass the Greek military and be in sufficient numbers to permanently occupy the cities of the Greeks.

 

[TheViking]

What I had in mind was not a full scale attack on the Greeks but a limited war with a very clear objective: An assault on their War Academy (Athens) and a few (3-5) surrounding core cities. This will cripple the Greeks, make them relatively harmless and should be easy to accomplish. We can then split the Greek empire into two parts by occupying two fortresses on hills east of Athens (watching the Greeks attack our veteran alpine troops in these fortresses would be fun :devil2: ). This isolates the eastern half of Hell and we can then slowly 'strangle' the western half.

This is much easier than waiting and then fighting Greek riflemen and alpine troops with armor and artillery - we might have to wait for howitzers. However, cavalry and cannons have absolutely no problems with veteran pikemen and phalanxes. Plus we can easily afford this since we are making more than $1000/turn using maximum taxes. I think it might even be a good idea to attack the Greeks and Zulus simultanaeously in order to effectively utilize the turns when we are not a democracy (this is easily possible; we might need to delay the start of the Zulu war for one or two turns though).

 

[TheViking]

I should add that it would probably be a good idea for the military advisor to post a poll regarding the Greeks.

That said, Sun Tzu and Leo are a great combo and the MoDA has its greedy eyes fixed on the glorious city of Athens . It has one of just three AI wonders that have not expired. It should be easy and not very risky to capture a few Greek cities.

The part of Greece that would be fun to capture is shown in this map:

A few cannons and cavalry aided by a destroyer can easily do this. The fact that Athens is on a river and has city walls is not a big problem, I often use crusaders to capture walled cities defended with phalanxes.

 

[RedBull]

That may sound good, but think about the big hoopla we had about the time away from democracy for our war in Africa. Dragging out a war like that would cripple the economy (excuse my sounding like a stereotypical Democrat [I kid, I kid...]) if we leave Democracy for it, and wouldn't last long enough to get anything done if we stay in Democracy and put up with the Senate. This is why a war of this scale needs a shock and awe campaign. As I see it, in the very early stages of even thinking about it, this war should be designed to take no longer than the war in Africa. The more we drag it out, the greater the chance France has to come help their allies, the Greeks, opening a whole new front. The use of armor requires, of course, Mobile Warfare, which means we put the War Academy out of the picture. Getting Mobile Warfare means we get the Automobile beforehand, which gives us battleships, and if we get there fast enough, naval superiority. Getting enough armor there quick enough will require transports, which require Industrialization, which I know we'll be getting along the way. All of this is why I suggest rushing to Mobile Warfare as the war in Africa draws to a close, and putting steel on target all the way up to their teeth while our support crew (engineers) develops the battleground to allow more steel on more targets in less time.

EDIT: Might I also add that every Greek city we can currently see can be bombarded from the sea by said battleships, rendering city walls useless! Any cities we find inland (can't be more than 3) can be taken by concentrated armor.

But that's me, and it's very very early yet. Let's win in Africa first before we devote ourselves to the second front.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Looking at that section of Hell, the obvious attack site is to land on the River square SE of Knossos with Cavalry and attack the same turn. Some Alpines can move out and block any potential counterattack from nearby cities. That square looks to be 3 river-moves away from Athens, so the units could again Move and Attack in one turn.

However, the "stylish" way to mount an attack is to place an engineer on the black square beween the Whale and the Pond with the boat in it (or on the desert if that is not a flat square), and flashbuild a canal city. Then we can sail right through the pond (of course annihilating the trireme) and pound Corinth with ships. Once we take it, we sail straight through and bombard Athens as well. Either way, we are more than strong enough to maintain multiple fronts, so I'd just as rather attack both at once. It will give our president something to keep his mind sharp if we go for both at once!

 

[funxus]

We can always take out one greek city before we're forced to sign a peace treaty. If we decide to capture Athens and then sign a treaty if they want to, we could use the galleon close to VM to transport one or two RMs or ATs to the hill (and the forest) to fortify them, then we could build 4 cannons which we could use to take out any defense in Athens and then capture it with the AT/RM.

This way we get Athen, STWA, can divide their empire and don't have to worry about being in demo or not. I also like Tim's "stylish" idea.

 

[TheViking]

Yes, capturing one city at a time is a great idea (that's what I meant by "slowly strangle the western half" in a previous message). However, I think we could start by capturing 4 Greek cities while we are conquering the Zulus as fundamentalists, especially if we combine Tim's idea with an attack on Athens using the destroyer near Besancon and troops that would attack Athens from the E/SE. This shouldn't take a longer time than conquering the Zulus does and most of the required military units have already been built.

 

[RedBull]

For my input, see the "BAP for the Wars in Africa and Hell, 1670 AD" thread...