Don't kill my Bear

[rief_s]

I start a new game and after several turn I have a veteran scout and almost get animal husbandry. There is a bear nearby. My people would be delight to get a dancing bear. But a green AI scout show up and kill that bear. A green scout!!!.

Several modmoder have explained this problem as duplicate advantage to AI for animal. So, I check related XML file CIV4HandicapInfo.xml and found that the AI get 2 advantages. I play mostly in Emperor or Immortal. In Immortal the AI will get 40% for animal and 40% for barbarian. The bear is both an animal and a barbarian, so the AI gets 80% advantage against them. It is like Combat IV, no wonder the Bear could be killed by a green scout. Further checking, I see in lower difficulty, the AI isn’t getting as much advantages.

With double advantages and high advantage for barbarian, I think this is the cause for early animal extinction and AI fast expansion. But it only happens in higher difficulty. In lower difficulty, the wilderness stills a wild and excitement place. So this is my suggestion for new balance setting.

Remove all advantages to animal, duplicate. The AI will get -10 advantages in lower difficulty and -20 in higher difficulty. Human will get -40 in lower difficulty and gradually become disadvantage +30 in deity.

Old setting

Spoiler :

<Type>HANDICAP_SETTLER</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>-40</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>-40</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>-10</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-10</iAIBarbarianBonus>
<Type>HANDICAP_CHIEFTAIN</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>-30</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>-30</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>-10</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-10</iAIBarbarianBonus>
<Type>HANDICAP_WARLORD</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>-20</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>-20</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>-10</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-10</iAIBarbarianBonus>
<Type>HANDICAP_NOBLE</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>-10</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>-10</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>-10</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-10</iAIBarbarianBonus>
<Type>HANDICAP_PRINCE</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>0</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>0</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>-10</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-10</iAIBarbarianBonus>
<Type>HANDICAP_MONARCH</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>0</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>0</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>-20</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-20</iAIBarbarianBonus>
<Type>HANDICAP_EMPEROR</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>0</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>0</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>-30</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-30</iAIBarbarianBonus>
<Type>HANDICAP_IMMORTAL</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>0</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>0</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>-40</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-40</iAIBarbarianBonus>
<Type>HANDICAP_DEITY</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>0</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>0</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>-50</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-50</iAIBarbarianBonus>

New setting

Spoiler :

<Type>HANDICAP_SETTLER</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>0</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>-40</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>0</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-10</iAIBarbarianBonus>
<Type>HANDICAP_CHIEFTAIN</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>0</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>-30</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>0</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-10</iAIBarbarianBonus>
<Type>HANDICAP_WARLORD</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>0</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>-20</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>0</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-10</iAIBarbarianBonus>
<Type>HANDICAP_NOBLE</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>0</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>-10</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>0</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-10</iAIBarbarianBonus>
<Type>HANDICAP_PRINCE</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>0</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>0</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>0</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-10</iAIBarbarianBonus>
<Type>HANDICAP_MONARCH</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>0</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>0</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>0</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-20</iAIBarbarianBonus>
<Type>HANDICAP_EMPEROR</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>0</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>10</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>0</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-20</iAIBarbarianBonus>
<Type>HANDICAP_IMMORTAL</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>0</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>20</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>0</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-20</iAIBarbarianBonus>
<Type>HANDICAP_DEITY</Type>
<iAnimalBonus>0</iAnimalBonus>
<iBarbarianBonus>30</iBarbarianBonus>
<iAIAnimalBonus>0</iAIAnimalBonus>
<iAIBarbarianBonus>-20</iAIBarbarianBonus>

 

[Ecofarm]

AI not killing animals with green scouts sounds good. No wonder I see an occasional 30xp hunter in the AI army. Mowing down a pack of bears with a scout must be nice.

I think the AI gets a barb and animal bonus based on noble difficulty. On higher difficulties, I do not see AIs having barb problems. In fact, at immortal+ and barb_world, you can bet the AI will be taking barb cities before you can (without an ancient civ rush).

 

[Immaculate]

Declare nationality with your bear the turn you get it if you intend to make it dance for peanuts. then, only enemy scouts can catch your bear. otherwise friendly scouts will try to catch/kill your bears.

EDIT: ignore me- i misunderstood the issue.

 

[mahazel]

hmm, I didn`t know that. Is it mean that if you have unit with hidden nationality (so AI see it as barbarian) your AI opponent has always a bonus?

 

[jprc]

Fully agree with the point...
Wild animals are way too quickly killed, and there is often no point searching for Nature Revolt as
result would simply give you a bunch of defenseless cats and dogs...
Actually, I also think that Polar bears are totally under valued. Ask any expert on it. A polar bear is by far more dangerous than a "classic" bear. It should be 7 and not 5...

 

[Fafnir13]

So...this extra plus they have versus animals...is this why my animal units go down so easily? Or does this only work against barbarian animals?

 

[tharg]

The bear is both an animal and a barbarian, so the AI gets 80% advantage against them.

Personally I think this is a bug, I cannot believe anyone intend this.

 

[JanusTalaiini]

That would certainly explain how the AI kills my captured elephants so easily. Always thought there was something missing there.

 

[MrPopov]

there are two issues at work in this thread here.

I believe the OP was referring to a bear that he/she had not quite captured yet, and was referring to the AI novice scout being able to defeat it since it gets double 40% bonuses (40% vs barb (since the bear was not captured by anyone yet) and 40% for animal unit class)

Others are bringing up the point that HN units "appear" as barbarian units to everyone else, so an AI bonus vs barbarians would be granted (+40% in this example (plus any applicable animal bonus if the unit was an animal)).

I don't think the latter issue is present. I believe that the unit simply "appears" barbarian, but is not actually counted as barbarian in the combat odds. That has been my experience in playing a Svartalfar/CoE strategy on Emporer difficulty.

I want to add though that I agree with above posters. Both issues (if present) need to be addressed. Handicap bonuses vs animals should probably be removed entirely. Also HN units should not be counted as barbarian in the combat odds (though I suppose that could, in a way, reveal their nationality).