Double Diplo Trick

[sethos]

When I've got enough gold (playing Fundi) and I'm technologically behind, I use my double-diplo-trick:
The first diplo steals a tech from a small city, the second bribes the city : 2nd tech.
The I rehome all the units in that city in one of my other cities.
The AI will take the chance and take the undefeated city.

Then I take 2 diplos ... *very, very big grin*

 

[mep]

It's better with spies; the unit may not be lost.

 

[duke o' york]

You can't steal a tech from the same city more than once, although you do get the tech for capturing it. So if you give the same city away to the AI then can you steal from it again? I don't see why you would want to keep doing it to the same city though. Why not just take the next city along? And then the next one and so on.

 

[mep]

IIRC, spies CAN steal more than once from the same city, but you get a warning to the effect that there is a chance of failure.

 

[Darius]

I agree with the duke, it doesn't seem worthwhile to spend hundreds of gold units only to give up the city.

 

[sethos]

I'll do this trick under several conditions.
1. I'm technologically behind (Fundamentalism!)
2. the bribed city is small (and cheap)
3. the next AI city cannot be reached in one turn by my diplomats / spies

Because you are under Fundamentalism, money isn't the problem.

When i have bribed that city, i sell one city improvement (I begin with the city walls) for I don't want to keep it. Normally, there are some modern units in the city (sometimes up to ten). They are rehomed to my nearest bigger city.

I needn't say that I'll keep that city when it has got an important strategic position.

 

[Smash]

If you are behind in tech it is a good plan.It was a very good plan in mp games back before no city bribing became the norm.

Dips and spys can be the best science program there is,especially in mp.

You don't always have to play the same way.Its fun to win by using different techniques,often you learn much.I think it makes you a better player overall.

 

[Marlos]

I also agree with Duke and Darius. While taking a tech and then the city is a smart move, the "rinse and repeat" method would only be useful if you were VERY behind. How far behind were you?

If you are only moderately behind, take the city and develop it for your own use. The more cities you have, the more research and trade, etc., you will have.

 

[sethos]

I won't sell any city improvements or rehome the defenders if the city has a good site, but normally it hasn't. And I won't do that if the city has as strategic site for me (maybe the entrance to the core of the AI empire with the capital).

 

[Kev]

Boy, if you're 4 or more techs behind when fundy is out and available (via the statue or the actual tech), then there are probably other issues that would be more pressing I would think. Without having spies no less.

Use those dips to bribe cities and keep 'em. You probably won't be able to do it with military in any case - unless you can produce an amazing numbers advantage. You'll get the techs as you go anyway. This assumes that your targets are not in a democracy, though.

I can see where if you are behind that the two-for-one steal and bribe trick would be OK if you are hitting a far flung city with no others around, but messing aruond like that for the sole purpose of getting even in tech is just allowing others cointinue on their merry way.

 

[Ming]

Originally posted by duke o' york
You can't steal a tech from the same city more than once, although you do get the tech for capturing it.

Not quite true...
If a diplo has been used by any civ against a specific city to steal a tech, it triggers the "steal tech flag" and no other tech can be stolen. However, spies doen't trigger the flag, so you can steal as many as you want if a diplo didn't take one in the earlier ages.

 

[duke o' york]

Useful to know that. Thanks Ming. It does make this double diplo trick a bit pointless though, as you may as well just keep stealing the techs with spies until you're back on level terms.

 

[Ace]

Originally posted by Ming


Not quite true...
If a diplo has been used by any civ against a specific city to steal a tech, it triggers the "steal tech flag" and no other tech can be stolen. However, spies doen't trigger the flag, so you can steal as many as you want if a diplo didn't take one in the earlier ages.

But each time you steal a tech with a spy, the chance of failure increases.

Two questions: 1: when you capture and give up a city, does that reset the steal tech flag? 2: IIRC, I have ripped off a tech from a city with a dip, and than gone back with a spy and done it again after a long time had passed. R U sure if a dip steals a tech, a spy cannot steal one later?

 

[Ming]

Am I 100% sure... Nahhh... But that was the case in the MP games we play. Maybe it's different in the versions before the MP edition. One of our strategies is to steal sciences from your ally early in the game to trigger the flag... so that our opponents couldn't take advantage of it later in the game where sciences like that allow nukes and SDI's or any of the space ship part sciences are VERY IMPORTANT

Feel free to test the theory out in SP... I don't really play SP anymore

 

[Ace]

Thanks Ming. I'm playing MGE sp most of the time. I will give it a try next game and see what happens.

That is a neat way to stop the A.I. from stealing tech in a MP game.


:tank:

 

[Mayhem]

Nah this doesn't work that much. Maybe if you lose the city and regain it after a period of time you could.

A true double dip trick would be to use them to get a foothold in enemy territories.

If there is a diplomat or spy in a opponent square a tank or military unit can go in that square.

So sliding 2 diplomats in adjacent squares then moving your units over them (mmm moving my unit over spies) is really useful in fighting a war that might be thru a small or medium opponent territory.

And this actually works, I didn't post something I didn't try like this guy.

 

[starlifter]

Ming is pretty much correct; however much of the other seems to be speculation speculation.

This is how it works. A city is founded, and a specific set of information is bit-encoded into a data matrix. One of these bits, called a flag in programming slang, is the "tech stolen" flag. The default setting is no. When a tech is stolen from that city, the flag is set by the program. No information about subsequent attempts is stored, and probability of succes is not altered by subsequent attempts/successes. Probability is altered by the presence of defending Dips/Spies (Discussion for another time).

The flag is now used by the game in 2 ways. If a Diplomat attempts to steal from the city, the option to steal is never presented. For a spy, the option to steal a specific tech is not allowed.

Now. What happens if the city changes ownership. Simple. The program resets the tech stolen flag to 0, which means a Dip can steal a tech again, and a thieving spy can choose to steal a specific tech.

The way this is implemented internally in the program means every time the city changes hands, the flag is reset... hence subject to Dip theft again. The odds of success are not affected by the cumulative attempts.

IMHO, the steal/bribe/giveup/repeat method does seem rather inefficient, and as has been pointed out, reflects more serious game strategy deficiences that required such drastic action in the first place. Another major stumbling block is forcing the AI to retake the city on your own timetable...

But, in theory, it is indeed possible to pull off this scheme with Dips. The code allows it.