Doviello Army - Some Exploits

[Master_Hugian]

After some experiments I have found an amazing three exploits. All with the Doviello and the spell Graft Flesh. (although I would love to be able to use them)

1- Army of skeleton raising, escaping, dancing hasted people.
Battlemasters, loved for their ability to train axeman to battlemasters, yet the trainer ability is also used for training dance of blades, haste, escape and raise skeleton if one has the right requirements. Why not use graft flesh to mix it with an adepts with body I, dimensional I, Chaos I and Death I. And there you get your entire living army training to do all that!

2- Weapon Crazed Golem
Now, when a golem is created it uses the average of the two 'victims' strength. Battlemaster Strength 9 (Mithril Weapons)
Mix with another battlemaster and you get (9+9)/2+4 = Str 13 golem. Why? The weapon bonus is added on twice.

3- Crazy Duel Wielding Golems
Now out of all the expoits, this one in my opinion a big one. Remember those str 13 golems I talked about? Well did you know that you could actually make them stronger by having your second victim not using mithril but iron weapons instead. (9+7)/2+4+2= Str 14 golem! Not only is the mithril weapon bonus added on again, but it stacks with the Iron weapon bonus making one hell of a golem, all from two easy to make battlemasters! (Now lets make them skeleton summoning, hasting, escaping, dancing golems and watch your enemy shrink in his/her seat- who said dwarves make the best golems)

Now, I am posting them here to 1- Make sure they are exploits and 2- If they are exploits, you can fix them.

EDIT- while I am on the subject of the Doviello, if a kind player gave an adventurer to the Doviello and the Doviello player upgraded it to, sat a beastman - the beastman won't get any metal bonuses.

 

[BCalchet]

They do sound somewhat exploitish, but so do many other things left untouched...

(Druids learning massive amounts of magic from Govannon, for example.)

In the end, I guess the creators will just have to choose what goes and what doesn't...

 

[Master_Hugian]

But think, Govannon is one person, a hero - once dead hard to get alive again. With this you can have as many people as you want to train magic.

 

[BCalchet]

Read my post again.

What I'm saying isn't
"But Govannon can train people, too!!111"
but rather
"Govannon can teach druids how to cast *all* divine, summoning and sorcery spells within the Body, Death and Chaos spheres. This also appears to be an exploit, but has not been fixed, leading me to believe that just because something looks like an exploit, this does not mean it is and should be fixed."

 

[MrUnderhill]

1- Army of skeleton raising, escaping, dancing hasted people.
Battlemasters, loved for their ability to train axeman to battlemasters, yet the trainer ability is also used for training dance of blades, haste, escape and raise skeleton if one has the right requirements. Why not use graft flesh to mix it with an adepts with body I, dimensional I, Chaos I and Death I. And there you get your entire living army training to do all that!

The only spell I see problems with (from a gameplay perspective) is Raise Skeleton and maybe Escape.

Haste and Dance of Blades already affect the whole stack, so teaching everyone to cast it is really no different than keeping an adept in your stack (a common practice, anyway). The only difference is that you don't need to be stacked to use them, but you also have to waste one of your valuable melee unit's attacks, rather than a worthless adept's.

 

[Hypnotoad]

The second and thrid exploits do seem to me like real problems, though. You shouldn't count the metal bonuses two or three times.

 

[Master_Hugian]

Well, it has been confirmed that the first one is an exploit (will be fixed in patch e) not sure about the other two though

 

[MrUnderhill]

Yeah, the other two seem more like coincidences in the golemization process than actual exploits.
It'll take some changes to the spell itself to fix those.

 

[Sureshot]

theres tons of possible exploits with the graft golem thingy, should just make them a national unit so you can only have a limited amount of them so it doesnt get too out of hand

 

[Mesix]

I don't know...an army of powerful golems doesn't sound any more unbalancing than an army of powerful wearwolves (which really cost nothing to build).

 

[Sureshot]

werewolves have a limit to their number (each new one lowers the chance of gettin new ones)

 

[MrUnderhill]

We could have Graft Flesh transfer up to 5 promotions at random.
It would be sort of like mutation, in that way; sometimes you could get a killer golem, while another would be a complete dud.

[/random thought]

 

[Master_Hugian]

I don't know...an army of powerful golems doesn't sound any more unbalancing than an army of powerful wearwolves (which really cost nothing to build).

The examples I gave was mixing two tier 3 units together, I took this as an example as this can take 2 turns (1 turn with two cities with different metals) to make the beastman (or axeman if your hammers are good) and upgrade them to battlemaster at no cost.

It would be at about this time I would value dwarven allies (for repair) or even dwarven slaves (Golem -dwarven ability, Earth I - Repair)

 

[Endovior]

Well, Druids are pretty buff, anyways... it's the combination of Sorcery, Summoning, and Divine providing loads of magic.

I especially like Balseraph Druids... if you upgrade them from Harlequins (and why wouldn't you?), they can cast all Chaos, Mind, and Nature spells. Without any shenanigans.

 

[Unser Giftzwerg]

theres tons of possible exploits with the graft golem thingy, should just make them a national unit so you can only have a limited amount of them so it doesnt get too out of hand

I second this motion. Definitely.

 

[BeefontheBone]

The last exploits on the list could be severely reduced by making the graft flesh spell determine the golem's strength based on the target units' BASE strength, rather than their current strength including promotions' effect.

 

[Quetz]

I second this motion. Definitely.

i'll take thirds