Dramatic Age discussion

The points require to get golden age in industrial age and forward rely heavily on war, as usual. Also the fact that you will automatically lose cities on other continents if you fall into dark age is just harsh. Also those cities can't be conquered easily, you need to concert mass reconquista efforts
 
Especially Byzantium has a problem with the ‘Dramatic Ages’ mode, though:
The ability to spread its religion by killing enemy units doesn’t work with independent cities’ units!

Barring some extreme unluckiness regarding free cities, I very much disagree. Byzantium has it extremely easy (most likely the easiest in the game), and the reason is that you are constantly funneled the best repeatable source of Era score in the game, +3 for converting an enemy city while at war. Noone can do this as easy as byzantium, and it ramps up to a LOT of Era score. As the medieval Era hit in my last game, I was nearly 100(!!!) Era score above the threshold, and about 40-50 above the renaissance Era (where I also closed out the game). I was at some point actually trying to NOT gain more Era score because it only kept rising the bar for me, but blitzing the enemy like that was just too ridiculous Era score wise.
 
Well I wrote my initial version of that post in a fit of rage, and if this mod didn't go so far or make it so hard to earn era score in the higher difficulty levels I wouldn't mind. But on the higher difficulties the AI often just takes off with their development, making eras incredibly short. I also don't see how I could possibly have earned enough Era Score to avoid a second dark age. Anyway, I've abandoned that game and started another in normal mode which is a shame because had the mechanics been normal on the first game it'd have gone well.
But at the same time, hard difficulties are supposed to be hard, right? We've been hearing for quite some time about how they were too easy.

I just knocked the difficulty down a rung to try the new mode. No shame in that.
 
I like the idea to make Golden and Dark ages more interesting and have more of an impact because they are not really anything you get either sad or happy about. To lose random cities and get some cards is not fun.

In Dark ages you should lose loyalty and get a debuff with certain yields too. Your focus should be to bring your empire back up. Then maybe as a feature have it be possible to push Dark ages on your enemies with spies.
But upon getting a Golden age you should get bonuses and be happy about getting it.
 
I thought I would hate Dramatic Ages mode, but I'm halfway through my first game with it on and so far I kind of like it. Though that may have more to do with me playing Byzantium and steamrolling everybody.

Yeah same for me, first run with Byzantium and I had endlessly chained golden ages from the constant +3 for converting an enemy city while at war.

Tried it again as BM Teddy yesterday on Deity, and that was something different entirely.
24/25 era score, lost my only settled city (apart from the capital) and it was basically game over from then (that, or save scum/micro manage era score like no tomorrow).
Not fun at all if you hit the classical dark age with 1 point to go, and not at all fun micromanaging era score.

I did a fresh restart and did exactly that, micromanage era score that is.
It got tiresome after a while, looking frantically for barb camps/villages, constantly trying to research cheap techs/civics with no plan apart from picking the cheapest ones for era score, and then stopping to research anything for 10 turns (as well as stopping to clear camps and stopping scouting) since I was at 25/25 for era score and didn't want to increase the threshold for the next era.

Too much micro managing in order to be fun for more than a few playthroughs, at least for me.
 
Yeah same for me, first run with Byzantium and I had endlessly chained golden ages from the constant +3 for converting an enemy city while at war.

Tried it again as BM Teddy yesterday on Deity, and that was something different entirely.
24/25 era score, lost my only settled city (apart from the capital) and it was basically game over from then (that, or save scum/micro manage era score like no tomorrow).
Not fun at all if you hit the classical dark age with 1 point to go, and not at all fun micromanaging era score.

I did a fresh restart and did exactly that, micromanage era score that is.
It got tiresome after a while, looking frantically for barb camps/villages, constantly trying to research cheap techs/civics with no plan apart from picking the cheapest ones for era score, and then stopping to research anything for 10 turns (as well as stopping to clear camps and stopping scouting) since I was at 25/25 for era score and didn't want to increase the threshold for the next era.

Too much micro managing in order to be fun for more than a few playthroughs, at least for me.
The higher difficulties SHOULD be about micromanaging; and, well, not fun for most people. I should get whooped at high difficulties both because I tend to fly by the seat of my pants and because I'm not that good to begin with.
 
The higher difficulties SHOULD be about micromanaging; and, well, not fun for most people. I should get whooped at high difficulties both because I tend to fly by the seat of my pants and because I'm not that good to begin with.

To some agree, absolutely, some level of micromanaging is the only way you can beat deity AI (bar cheesing the game).
I do play on Deity myself and usually I know roughly how much micro managing I have to accept to secure the all-important early game, but I still have some "flow" without having to think for too long each turn.
To me though, Dramatic ages takes micromanaging to ridiculous levels, and as in my example with teching cheap techs/civics (and then stopping completely to not go above the threshold) is both so counter-intuitive, and so taxing that it makes the early game a real chore and just loses the "flow" for me.
LIke, you want to make sure you get enough era score, but if possible, not a single point more.
That's sure is a lot of micro managing to achieve within a set turn limit.
People might like micro managing like that and that's perfectly fine, but it's personally not for me.

Btw, while I agree that Dramatic Ages is "harder", it's only so to a point.
As long as you are willing to micro manage hard, I'd say it eventually gets easier, and sometimes a lot easier.
Easier because the AI is perhaps even worse at handling the Dramatic Ages, and sometimes even a Deity AI will simply implode from free cities and a snowball of negative loyalty pressure.
That is also a reason why I feel the Dramatic Ages are a bit cheap because the win sometimes feels less deserved, even if you worked your a** off to secure that Golden Age.
 
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... since I was at 25/25 for era score and didn't want to increase the threshold for the next era.

Just FYI in case you dont know, getting more points doesn't increase the relative threshold. The threshold increase by a set (calculated) number each era for a given player. Lets imagine it is calculated to 25, then the next threshold is: 'current era score'+25. It doesn't matter if it is 50 into 75, or 55 into 80. No change in difficulty.

If you want to save some easy era score is another matter, but that has nothing to do with 'increase the threshold'.
 
I see how that's frustrating. But I also see how you've been enthusiastically telling a very dramatic story full of dramatic rises and falls (and narrow, hard-fought victories), and said that you've "cracked" the game but this new mode gave you a whole new system to try and figure out, so... I don't feel that bad? It sounds like you kind of, in spite of yourself, had a pretty OK time? Or at least came out with a pretty dramatic story. I have one where in a massive game of <COMPETITOR'S GAME> I ended up changing royal succession laws and saw my empire just fall to pieces in a generation because of some part of the law that I forgot that allowed a distant relative to inherit half the kingdom. It ended the game and I "lost," but I loved the drama in the story.

The main system for advancing Era score here is via technologies and civics. Unlike the Dedications, there's no real difference between how you get score in a Golden age vs a Dark age, but the threshold is way lower in a Dark age (correct me if I'm wrong; I'm not the dev on this). So you can't count on Dedications, although defeating a barbarian camp, adopting a new tier of government, converting a holy city, etc., is always a good bet.

I wouldn't go so far to say that I hate the absence of normal ages, but it adds IMO a bit too much randomness and drama to a mode I overall like for several cool additions and changes (and which honestly suprised me positive to what I expected of it :) ):

- Policy Cards instead of fixed Dedications
- rebalanced and new Dark Age Cards
- no waste of excess era points
- Dark Ages being more severe
- absence of heroic ages (always felt a bit strange to me)

It is pretty close to how I always wished the base game to be - I wouldn't even mind to narrow the span where you enter a normal age (as in base game for my taste golden ages are too easy and frequent, while dark ages are a tad too easy to avoid), but I would prefer to have sometimes a calm normal age in between. To speak in the "ice cream topping"-picture for the game modes in NFP: I really like this sweet-sour mixture, but it is just too much topping for my poor ice ball ;) )

Apart from missing normal ages, there was so far only one frustrating moment: The loss of the Goverment Plaza by the city turning independent I already mourned about in a previous post...
 
Just FYI in case you dont know, getting more points doesn't increase the relative threshold. The threshold increase by a set (calculated) number each era for a given player. Lets imagine it is calculated to 25, then the next threshold is: 'current era score'+25. It doesn't matter if it is 50 into 75, or 55 into 80. No change in difficulty.

If you want to save some easy era score is another matter, but that has nothing to do with 'increase the threshold'.

Ah, that was new to me, cheers!
Either way though, I feel that "saving Era score" is still preferable after reaching the first threshold, as getting the dark age is simply too punitive also for the medieval Era.
 
Ah, that was new to me, cheers!
Either way though, I feel that "saving Era score" is still preferable after reaching the first threshold, as getting the dark age is simply too punitive also for the medieval Era.
Why can't excess era points carry over to the next era. Or excess era points can give your Golden Age a bonus in length.
Just as an fyi, in the dev video first introducing Dramatic Ages, they mentioned that excess era points further increases the loyalty output of one's empire (around 2:49):
(for some reason the embedded YT video doesn't jump to 2:49 :()

As to whether or not one want that? Maybe not, since that likely ends up nabbing more cities that'll further up one's era score requirement into the next age :p

As to why era points can't just be carried over into the next era? Good question, I'd like to have even just a portion of the excess to go towards helping out my era score in the next era in normal games too :) But I imagine that would make staying out of dark ages too easy.
 
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Just as an fyi, in the dev video first introducing dramatic ages, they mentioned that excess era points further increases the loyalty output of your empire (around 2:49):
(for some reason the embedded YT video doesn't jump to 2:49 :()

As to whether or not you'd want that? Maybe not, since that likely ends up nabbing more cities that'll further up your era score requirement into the next age :p

As to why era points can't just be carried over into the next era? Good question, I'd like to have even just a portion of the excess to go towards helping out my era score in the next era in normal games too :) But I imagine that would make staying out of dark ages too easy.

So Dramatic Ages-exclusive? I'm not a fan of that game mode so that's a bum if that is the case.
 
So Dramatic Ages-exclusive? I'm not a fan of that game mode so that's a bum if that is the case.
Tis correct, excess era score only helps in Dramatic Ages. Excess era score otherwise just generally makes it harder to stay out of a Dark Age (and subsequently harder to get into a Golden Age).
 
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Annnoyingly if you go for domination and take all the active civs but a civ died and flipped to free that doesn't count :(
 
Apparently, Statue of Liberty does not guarantee nearby cities wont rebel during dark age. I experienced it yesterday and the free city need to be captured because the loyalty pressure from the city that has SoL is not enough.
 
What's odd about this current game I'm playing is how non-violent it's been... usually the computer civs will often fight each other, but I've really been the only warmonger, and aside from Germany capturing a few city-states early on (as is their habit), I'm currently in the Renaissance and none of them have declared war on each other. Yet a lot of them have tiny to non-existent militaries (for example, I pretty much just crushed Byzantium last night, with almost no resistance at all, though for various reasons I couldn't take their final city). Which makes me wonder if they're just not bothering to create military units, or if they're wasting them trying to conquer back their cities that rebelled during the Dark Ages. Whatever the case may be, it's certainly made my life easier, ha ha.
 
I think the extra points going to increase loyalty is a very good change that should be part of the base game. As for Dark Ages, the penalty should go down by each point that you miss it (with a base penalty and a cap).
 
After several tries I can say that the dramatic ages mode is the most difficult gaming experience I have ever had in Civ6 after over 7000 hours. And I have only tried it on level king(!). Maybe it was bad luck but every AI in my neighborhood got one golden age after another while I was never able to get two golden ages in a row. And my cities kept flipping away even during the dark age, not only at the beginning.
Thank god it's only a game mode which does not have to be enabled.
 
Also the fact that you will automatically lose cities on other continents if you fall into dark age is just harsh. Also those cities can't be conquered easily, you need to concert mass reconquista efforts

OH I didn't know that... that is BAD design, IMHO.

Playing my first game in this mode, huge map, highland script, Gaul, Immortal. I think my settings are really bad for this mode, I keep going from golden to dark ages in succession, can't seem to be able to hit two golden ages in a row. Map gave me a start on the line between two continents, so I have 7 cities on main one and five on the other. Didn't know about the detail mentionned here, so now I lose 5 cities on each dark ages... My only luck was getting akkad suze right off the bat, otherwise ot would be extremely difficult to get them back.

Am entering modern era now. I feel playing huge map and highlands script probably makes it too hard to get the constant era scores, since many of them comes of from exploring, and exploring is SLOW on highland... is that possible, or am I just dreaming ?

anyways I don't think I enjoy this mode enough to use it often, just seems too random and harsh for my taste... but... it's nice to have this option available when you feel like a bigger challenge than usual
 
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