D'Tesh

[Nadrak]

Hello,
I tried this civilization with RfE v1.20 and I don't really get it. How to play this civ? They looks like weak version of Scions. After settling first city I noticed how low is their from capital building. Is it intended? I mean research at city size 4 = 7..? Next, all terrain around my city was in 10-20 turns transformed into desert, lowering even more , and hitting me hard for another 50turns (until wastelands). Even with city size 4 from the start I feel like a leader of goblin's bamboo hut...
Thank you for your inputs!

 

[Deon]

When you get lots of infused ash, your research goes HIGH! Also they get no and no thus they are better than scions at producing a huge city.

Just run slavery, build a salthouse and aim for recon units. Notice that their melee line has DEATH AFFINITY! Later when you have some death mana, your warriors will be as strong as other civ's champions.

Also D'Tesh crypt is a hell of an improvement. With necromancy and another tech it gives a lot of hammers, and you can build quarries on hills which are 3 1 for D'Tesh.

P.S> I forgot to mention that with their invisible recon units it's really easy to lvl up them and to make preventive strikes on approaching enemy stacks thus effectively protecting you from any harm. Especially with Thanatos, who is Overpowered IMO (I mean leader; invisible recon units with +1 str are even better than Svartalfar which are supposed to be the best recon units' nation).

 

[Valkrionn]

Basically, ONLY expand via Forts, ash any and all organic resources (Except for one Bison, Cow, or Horse, which you can convert to Nightmares if you want mounted units), and build crypts everywhere your one city can have them.

ALWAYS run slavery, and make sure to fight an early war; That first war determines how successful you are later, as it determines if your capital has enough population to keep up early on.

Tech Knowledge of the Ether immediately, and build a Mages Guild. It will remove ALL unhappiness/unhealth.

Your Recon units are permanently invisible, Arcane are strong but require an extra level to upgrade, Melee and Mounted gain no xp but have Death affinity, Archers get extra defensive strikes.

Salt is awesome, as the D'teshi Salthouse UB (Morgue) grants extra defense to Melee and Archer units.

The commanders you get from combat, as well as the first Hero (Thanatos), are invisible, just like the Recon.

D'tesh himself (Late game, you may not ever actually get him) is VERY strong now that he has the Opalus Mortis. Any units he summons gain an EXTRA Death affinity, and he has access to the Command Undead spell... Essentially Dominate for all undead. Even Scions, though they are more resistant to it.

 

[Deon]

I want to say, with no promotions for units (promotions determine the main strength of most units) Salt is a MUST. However I very rarely see it. Probably you should make some kind of a National wonder which produces salt (like deruptus brewing house produces ale) for them; probably make it UB for Deruptus brewing house since they don't need a happiness resource anyway. Call it "Salt mines" or something.

 

[Valkrionn]

I see Salt pretty commonly, honestly. Though if I was to add a wonder granting it, it would be a boost for Coastal cities rather than a mining thing, and would be open to any civ.

 

[Deon]

Good, because with my D'Tesh 1.20 games I've never seen a single salt yet.

 

[Valkrionn]

Really? With FlavorStart on, I tend to start near some in the desert.

Of course, I also play ErebusContinent nearly exclusively.

 

[Nadrak]

Yeah, I'm in a jungle/forest region without any salt nearby. I popped a Great commander from a dungeon and noticed the stealth on him. I though "This is cool, I can get him safely back to town."....he was eaten 2 turns later by a wandering Minotaur...
Ashing resources...this part I missed. But still, I think a boost to the capital could be ok to match other civs (around 12 ), because they seems to be outteched early in the game.

 

[Valkrionn]

The thing is, they pretty much HAVE to be. The way they are set up (Population from War, nothing BUT War) would lead to them becoming powerful FAR too easily if they were balanced well early.

 

[Deon]

Also Nadrak, there should be Escape spell on your Great commander which brings him right into capital.

 

[Nadrak]

and what about the desert and srubs? Why is there early stopping of and for 50turns...?
The fallen angel I popped had no escape spell..just build fort button.

 

[Valkrionn]

and what about the desert and srubs? Why is there early stopping of and for 50turns...?
The fallen angel I popped had no escape spell..just build fort button.

The addition of Dimensional 1 was a late merge from Vermicious's files on my part, so I neglected to add it to the Dullahan UU.

Hmm... Maybe I nerfed them too hard in the beginning? The main reason Wasteland takes so long to get is to control how long it takes to FADE, when an enemy conquers it (Same amount of time to revert). I could add a Hammer to desert, maybe.

 

[Nadrak]

I think remove -1 from scrubs and add 1 and 1to desert, 50 turns to wasteland is ok.
So if every title around capital is converted to desert, they would have 11 from it or 2 1 with scrubs for 50 turns on unimprovable title...that looks ok to me.

And for that salt. I play on Pangea map with explored surroundings. My closest salt is located 34 spaces away...so Am'I royally screwed..? I think some UB for D'Tesh would be cool.

 

[odalrick]

Just run slavery, build a salthouse and aim for recon units. Notice that their melee line has DEATH AFFINITY! Later when you have some death mana, your warriors will be as strong as other civ's champions.

Unless you run into someone who is immune to death. It's not uncommon.

I'd prefer if warriors lost their affinity and got a bit of permanent boost.

They're warriors they should only be useful in the beginning, instead they're near worthless in the beginning and replaces champions late game. (What do you prefer, four units with strength 15 or one with strength 21?)

Make them Skeletons, the same kind summoned by adepts. They get a slight boost early game, when they really need it; lose value when you hook up copper. And they'd still be weaker than normal warriors.

 

[Nadrak]

I don't know if infused ash is even working...If you look at this image of my capital:

Spoiler :

If you count at plots, you'll get 49+4 (capital building)=53 So bonus from ashes is not applied here.
Going down the road we get 85,5, but number displayed is 88,35...how?

I have 5x infused ash

85,5+5commerce=90,5
85,5:science+5%:science=89,775:science

so neither is working here and base bonus isn't applied?

 

[Krschtschn]

It's because of the way Civ 4 is counting bonuses. You add up every beakers you get from buildings and commerce first, then add up all percentagebonuses and apply them after that.

The actual calculation goes like this:

Base: 53(from)+4=57

Multiplier: 1+50%+5%(from Ash)=155%

Overall: 57*155%=88,35

 

[Valkrionn]

I think remove -1 from scrubs and add 1 and 1to desert, 50 turns to wasteland is ok.
So if every title around capital is converted to desert, they would have 11 from it or 2 1 with scrubs for 50 turns on unimprovable title...that looks ok to me.

And for that salt. I play on Pangea map with explored surroundings. My closest salt is located 34 spaces away...so Am'I royally screwed..? I think some UB for D'Tesh would be cool.

That sounds fine. They had no hammers for Scrub initially as their workers auto-scorched their terrain... Led to lots of scrub. Now, python converts scrub to Haunted Lands, no scrub is left when Wasteland appears.

Unless you run into someone who is immune to death. It's not uncommon.

I'd prefer if warriors lost their affinity and got a bit of permanent boost.

They're warriors they should only be useful in the beginning, instead they're near worthless in the beginning and replaces champions late game. (What do you prefer, four units with strength 15 or one with strength 21?)

Make them Skeletons, the same kind summoned by adepts. They get a slight boost early game, when they really need it; lose value when you hook up copper. And they'd still be weaker than normal warriors.

Honestly, I like them being different like that. If I had fractional affinity I'd say give them .5 affinity for Death, or .25 Death and .25 Shadow, and then a strength boost early on. Doesn't exist yet, sadly.

 

[odalrick]

Honestly, I like them being different like that. If I had fractional affinity I'd say give them .5 affinity for Death, or .25 Death and .25 Shadow, and then a strength boost early on. Doesn't exist yet, sadly.

Strength 2 (often 1) main defenders until you get Knowledge of the Ether is too low. It's not even a problem for Thanatos, he just builds scouts. Why should the main leader be so much weaker in the beginning?

 

[Nadrak]

It's because of the way Civ 4 is counting bonuses. You add up every beakers you get from buildings and commerce first, then add up all percentagebonuses and apply them after that.

The actual calculation goes like this:

Base: 53(from)+4=57

Multiplier: 1+50%+5%(from Ash)=155%

Overall: 57*155%=88,35

I see...but where is the 5 from ash?!

Ash reads:-3 +1 +1%
It should be then:

53(from)+4(catacomb)+5(from 5xash)=62
62*155%=96,10

right...?

 

[Deon]

I think does not stack, only research bonus,