D'Tesh

[Gaga1111]

Speaking of D'tesh they are fun to play but there is a bug/balance problem which is that you can sacrifice units to give their fort commanders exp.The problem is I sacrificed The Death 1 summon skeleton and got in two rounds (using 4 adepts-->8 skels) a 100+xp commander unfortunatley the most xp they need is 82.Also to that matter slaves give incredible amounts of xp half of my slaves gave them 50-70xp (means 1 slave the 50-70exp)

 

[Valkrionn]

Speaking of D'tesh they are fun to play but there is a bug/balance problem which is that you can sacrifice units to give their fort commanders exp.The problem is I sacrificed The Death 1 summon skeleton and got in two rounds (using 4 adepts-->8 skels) a 100+xp commander unfortunatley the most xp they need is 82.Also to that matter slaves give incredible amounts of xp half of my slaves gave them 50-70xp (means 1 slave the 50-70exp)

I'll test the spell out again, and yes, summons need to be blocked.

The amount of xp gained should be equal to the level of the sacrificed unit.

 

[Gaga1111]

I'll take that as a try to fix it

 

[Vorpal+5]

What is the interest of the Crypt? It seems to be always inferior to the carry?

Dtesh bug: the create field fortification allows to place fortifications adjacent to each other.

 

[Iskar Jarak]

further d'tesh bug, the errect fort spell that the great commander UU creates a fort with a normal commander, not a d'tesh one. not a big deal, just have to disband unit and reclaim fort next turn and everything is normal.

 

[Valkrionn]

further d'tesh bug, the errect fort spell that the great commander UU creates a fort with a normal commander, not a d'tesh one. not a big deal, just have to disband unit and reclaim fort next turn and everything is normal.

That's actually a bug with Great Commanders in general, not the D'tesh one specifically. The python it uses was written before Fort Commander UU's were added, was never updated as it was for the Kuriotates Pioneer unit. Didn't need to be. Odalrick already supplied fixed python for it so it will definitely be in the next patch; If I had to do I might have forgotten it.

 

[odalrick]

That's actually a bug with Great Commanders in general, not the D'tesh one specifically. The python it uses was written before Fort Commander UU's were added, was never updated as it was for the Kuriotates Pioneer unit. Didn't need to be. Odalrick already supplied fixed python for it so it will definitely be in the next patch; If I had to do I might have forgotten it.

Actually, I didn't fix the part where they can be planted next to each other. Didn't think of it.

Should they be able to or not, and what about other Fort-like improvements? Can Forts be built next to Castles?

 

[Valkrionn]

Actually, I didn't fix the part where they can be planted next to each other. Didn't think of it.

Should they be able to or not, and what about other Fort-like improvements? Can Forts be built next to Castles?

No, I'll need to add a bit of code to make sure the one-tile spacing is preserved.

RifE (and Orbis) only allow forts in every other tile. Can't be next to each other. Since it's done in the DLL, it should be possible to use a 'canHaveImprovement' call, assuming it exists. Know it does for features (Used to place Floodplains in the Scorch spell), not sure for improvements.

Edit: To be clear - The range requirement checks all improvement upgrades as well as the base improvement. Can't build a fort next to a citadel.

 

[Vorpal+5]

Any feedback on the interest of the DTesh crypt compared to carry?

 

[Valkrionn]

Any feedback on the interest of the DTesh crypt compared to carry?

What exactly do you mean, Crypt vs Quarry?

If so, the Crypt gets lots of boosts from techs. With Necromancy and Arcane Lore, it becomes a 4 2 improvement for them.


If you mean Crypt vs Pyre (Doubtful, but D'tesh generally should do one or the other; Likely to remove the capability for most of the other improvements, honestly):

Pyre can only be built on organic resources. With the same techs, it becomes a 2 6 improvement, as well as granting a resource which increases research.

 

[odalrick]

If so, the Crypt gets lots of boosts from techs. With Necromancy and Arcane Lore, it becomes a 4 2 improvement for them.

And with D'Tesh, choosing Necromancy as the research target on the first turn isn't insane. (31)

 

[Valkrionn]

Pretty much, yes. Arcane Lore is late game, but Necromancy certainly isn't... And you already need KotE for the Mage Guild so you can remove the happy cap. I typically detour for Hunting between KotE and Necromancy (Thanatos), but it's still a very important tech.

 

[Vermicious Knid]

Unless you run into someone who is immune to death. It's not uncommon.

I'd prefer if warriors lost their affinity and got a bit of permanent boost.

They're warriors they should only be useful in the beginning, instead they're near worthless in the beginning and replaces champions late game. (What do you prefer, four units with strength 15 or one with strength 21?)

Make them Skeletons, the same kind summoned by adepts. They get a slight boost early game, when they really need it; lose value when you hook up copper. And they'd still be weaker than normal warriors.

Revisiting this point...I'm finding that I have to jump into the WB and resurrect the Legion every time it shows up as an AI. Their capital gets bulldozed, every time.

In my most recent game I had to resurrect them 4 times before turn 20.



So...their early game needs a defensive boost. Giving them a few skeletons might work. Heck, giving them a 0 combat/5 defense immobile "wall of corpses" or some such would fix the problem if we want to preserve unique flavor.

 

[Vorpal+5]

What exactly do you mean, Crypt vs Quarry?

If so, the Crypt gets lots of boosts from techs. With Necromancy and Arcane Lore, it becomes a 4 2 improvement for them.


If you mean Crypt vs Pyre (Doubtful, but D'tesh generally should do one or the other; Likely to remove the capability for most of the other improvements, honestly):

Pyre can only be built on organic resources. With the same techs, it becomes a 2 6 improvement, as well as granting a resource which increases research.

About their output yes, crypt only produces as quarries when you reach Arcane Lore (6 resources each), before quarries are always better... so not much flavor here. I thought at first that some special effect was to be expected, like a random free skeletons popping up.

I have another question, is it on purpose that the undercouncil/slave ring vote don't allow slaves to be bought by DTesh (or any fallow civ perhaps?). It is a good thing actually, but I wondered if this was done on purpose.

 

[Valkrionn]

About their output yes, crypt only produces as quarries when you reach Arcane Lore (6 resources each), before quarries are always better... so not much flavor here. I thought at first that some special effect was to be expected, like a random free skeletons popping up.

I have another question, is it on purpose that the undercouncil/slave ring vote don't allow slaves to be bought by DTesh (or any fallow civ perhaps?). It is a good thing actually, but I wondered if this was done on purpose.

Quarries are only stronger than a crypt if it has a resource. I may end up allowing Crypts to harvest non-organic resources....

It is entirely on purpose. The Legion can never purchase slaves, as it would be WAY too powerful.

 

[Vorpal+5]

It is entirely on purpose. The Legion can never purchase slaves, as it would be WAY too powerful.

Indeed, just wanted to know

About the quarries, they are always stronger than a crypt in my game...

 

[Nadrak]

... as it would be WAY too powerful.

overpowered...? Oh great, then enable it...I though RifE is about OPed stuff....

 

[Valkrionn]

overpowered...? Oh great, then enable it...I though RifE is about OPed stuff....

Being able to buy 100 population in a turn is WAY too strong. Trust me, it wasn't blocked when Mailbox first released them. I was one of the ones to abuse it.

Actually, it's also because of me that the Tower of Complacency is blocked for the Scions... Let slip in their development thread that I'd play as Korinna, go OO, build the tower, and build reborn until I had a size 150 capital.

 

[odalrick]

Actually, it's also because of me that the Tower of Complacency is blocked for the Scions... Let slip in their development thread that I'd play as Korinna, go OO, build the tower, and build reborn until I had a size 150 capital.

I don't get that. 150 pop capital, so what? You had to build each and every one of those Reborn to get it.

Imagine if you instead had spent 75 Reborn on 75 cities and spread Masquerade to each of those cities. Far grater income and not blocked in any way.

 

[Valkrionn]

I don't get that. 150 pop capital, so what? You had to build each and every one of those Reborn to get it.

Imagine if you instead had spent 75 Reborn on 75 cities and spread Masquerade to each of those cities. Far grater income and not blocked in any way.

Keep in mind, with each and every pop added to the capital the new reborn is easier to build.

Also, it was a duel map... I couldn't fit that many cities in.