Dumb combat system

[SupertoneD]

Stack of Doom. Basically, you send all your units clustered together. In Civ III it was the military strategy. They've tried to get away from that with collateral damage, but I don't think that actually helps much.

yeah, for real. the collateral damage units help a bit, but they have to essentially
kill themselves in order to apply thier effect. in reality, there is going to
be an SoD defending any major city, and nothing but an even bigger SoD is
going to take it out. I mean, sure, now there is some incentive to split
your SoD into 4 mini SoDs, and attack from the cardinal points to split
up the splash damage, but it's still the same concept.

 

[Armed_Maniac]

Agreed.

I've never seen a game able to do stacking in such a way that doesn't lead to gigantic overstacked units running around like Godzilla on crack. If anyone's ever played Hearts of Iron - they tried lots things to prevent this (command limit penalties, leader characteristics, etc). Nothing worked all that well, always ended up with killer stacks tromping around the map.

I wish armies weren't eliminated, though - the idea of a limited stack-type unit, I think, was worth salvaging.

then there could be a limit on the bonus... like, say, no more than 3 units can attack together? Besides, to face the SODs firaxis has made it so altillery can dmg multiple units in a stack... so a mere catapults can severly cripple a SOD

 

[yoshi74]

While multiple units can't attack together, there is still a big advantage for the guy with the big number.
In civ3 a unit fought always with its full power, regardless whether it was full healed or already wounded. In cIV a wounded unit does much less damage und also has a less chance to hit. So you're marine is after the first battle only as strong as a inf, after the 3rd only as strong as a musketman an after the 4th most likely dead. Note that the attacker in this example could be simple rifleman, two steps on the infantary line behind! Bigger numbers are usefull, after all you win against the defender. Of cource the are losses, as would be expected against a defender with superior strength. Look at D-Day.

 

[kung-fu-stu]

Thought I'd throw in my 2 cents to the 10 tanks attack 2 tanks debate.

Even if you attack with overwhelming numbers you will still receive casualties. Period. Before they go down those 2 defending tanks will each be able to take out one of the attackers. There's actually a fair chance they'll take out more than one each as they are in defensive positions; they've chosen and have knowledge of the ground and will have used choke points to limit the attackers’ advantage in numbers.

But in the Civ IV scenario (with identical units) the attacker will prevail, once he's taken a few losses. It's a war of attrition. Victory will go to side with numerical superiority. But at a cost.

 

[Jorgen_CAB]

I have thought some about the combat model, and I do think that it is perhaps unrealistic in some sense. All units fighting alone without support from each other.

But this I feel has to be done since the commander has an omnipotent view of the battlefield and there are no bonuses from attacking from several different directions and cutting of units from supply.

What can be done (and will be done in my game anyway) is to give all units some chance to withdraw from combat. A normal infantry would have a 30% chance to disengage from combat, a mounted unit would have 50% chance and a canon would have 80%.

For example, Archers could have a small collateral damage as a start, since they would be early artillery units and at least a 50% withdraw chance since they try to stay away from the fight as much as possible.

This would give some advantages to the attacker that must be balanced by a slightly higher defence values in certain areas, but that is something that could be tested.

This would not be to radical change and the AI would be able to handle the changes very well.

 

[Philips beard]

Quantity is the most common element associated with victory in all of recorded history pertaining to warfare.

Numbers DO matter. The combat model in civ really needs to be redone.

Quantity isnt the same as keeping all youre units in one single area, not bothering to keep up a broad frontline at all! Making large stacks has penalties in real life too, because you have to spread out to protect a larger territory, an to protect from out flanking, an being sorrounded!