Duplicating Wonders

[GenEngineer]

Realistically, World Wonders are by definition singular. Similar wonders have different names from different locations, and thus would have different effects. From a gameplay perspective, the ability to pick up every wonder whenever you want more or less eliminates the point of the Wonders; at that point, they're basically buildings, viewed through the lens of the sooner you build it, the sooner it starts racking up yields for you. And what about the wonders that do more than just tile yield? Such as a free worker, or trade routes, or Great Work slots? These are discrete, single values, and if a duplicate can either have a 1:1 ratio with the original, in which case it's not a wonder by any means, or a 0:1 ratio, in which case there's no point in building it. Wonder's could be redeveloped to work with a fraction system, but that robs them of a lot of the design space open to them by virtue of being unique, only one in the world max ever.

 

[Doviello]

This is what i got from OP' idea: instead of building a wonder, you build a wonder class, and the earlier you do it, the greater the bonuses; it also determines which thing, specifically, you built.

For example, say several nations are building a Great Tower:
The first to finish gets the babel tower or something
the second gets the great lighthouse
3. gets Porcelain tower
4. gets Leaning Tower
5. gets Eifel
6. Gets CN Tower

Then there's a Great statue; the first place gets the Colossus, second place gets Zeus, [...] eight place gets Liberty Statue, ninth place gets Cristo Redentor

Then Great Inner City (Forbidden City, Angkor Wat, Versailles, Kremlin, whatever)

Then Great Triangle (Pyramids, Ziggurat, Chichen Itza, Louvre).

This way you won't have duplicate wonders, and your production won't ever be wasted by losing a wonder race.

Personally i don't like this idea, first because it makes wonders progressively worst, which is the opposite of what we have now (early wonders have smaller bonuses but they are good, because your numbers are so low they make a difference; late wonders are very good but don't make that much of an impact); and second, because then everyone can have one of each class of wonder, which totally removes the uniqueness of having wonders in the first place. It also greatly reduces the amount of different unique type of bonuses we can get from them; we would then have a "growth" wonder class (pyramids); an economic wonder class (statues), etc.

The way we have it now, wonders are trully unique and the bonus they provide is more connected to their history and relevance than their actual usefulness: why do your workers work harder if you have a pyramid? Because it takes a very laborious civilization to build it; the colossus is just a statue, it doesn't leak gold or make ships appear out of thin air, but it is the symbol of a civilization that it well versed in the art of trading.

If we take the Wonder Classes idea, then Chichen Itza will just be Pyramids/3; ziggurat will be pyramids/2; etc. And then, the idea of each wonder giving you bonuses based on it's historical relevance will be totally lost. The civilization that (in real life) built the Colossus was totally different than the one who built the Statue of Liberty, or the Cristo Redentor, thats why they should have different bonuses.

 

[bite]

While I do agree Wonders should be unique, I do fell that a bit of work could have been put into the consolation prize if you miss out.

If say you have built more than 75% of a wonder instead of getting money you would get a building of a similar type i.e. miss the great library get a science building, miss the Machu Picchu get a economic building etc.

 

[m15a]

While I do agree Wonders should be unique, I do fell that a bit of work could have been put into the consolation prize if you miss out.

If say you have built more than 75% of a wonder instead of getting money you would get a building of a similar type i.e. miss the great library get a science building, miss the Machu Picchu get a economic building etc.

That could work but you would have a few special cases, like, what if all the buildings of a class are built or what if the relevant tech hasn't been discovered? Or what if you don't want that building? Seems like a simple compromise would be to let the player choose what to build instead, which is basically how it used to be with being able to transfer shields to another building. (I guess the Civ V solution is derived from that.) A specific building or class of buildings is a bit more interesting storywise though.

 

[CaptainPatch]

This is what i got from OP' idea: instead of building a wonder, you build a wonder class, and the earlier you do it, the greater the bonuses; it also determines which thing, specifically, you built.

For example, say several nations are building a Great Tower:
The first to finish gets the babel tower or something
the second gets the great lighthouse
3. gets Porcelain tower
4. gets Leaning Tower
5. gets Eifel
6. Gets CN Tower

Part of the difficulty of hashing this out is that Firaxis has already made several "of a class" Wonders and already included them as individual Wonders. Further, they have attached many benefits that simply cannot be segmented into fractions. These factors inevitably lead to the conclusion that for this idea to be incorporated, the whole Wonders section would have to be reworked. LOTS of work to accomplish that, but nonetheless doable. And it isn't like Firaxis has never done a section overhaul before.

In regards to "of a class" Wonders, the basic Wonder type would have to be related to a specific era. "Tallest building" in the Ancient era would would be for instance the Tower of Babel. That is the base Wonder. Now, if Babylon builds it, what would they call? If Egypt built it, what would they call it? The Shoshone? The French? Etc. For _most_ of the existing Wonders. The class is NOT "the Tower of Babel". The class is "really, really tall building for the Ancient era."

Does that help to make the proposed process easier to understand?