Eagles Coaches Blew It

S

Sultan Bhargash

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I am getting tired of the AMerican Football Eagles being poorly coached. That 25-28 loss to Jacksonville was a disgrace for many reasons, but it comes down to the last minute for me: if you are down by ten points and in field goal range with 37 seconds left, KICK THE FIELD GOAL!!! You will still need to recover an onside kick but if you do there will still be time on the clock to tie the game. Making them run the no-huddle till wossname puked is just stupidity.
 
Are you from Philly? if so, then you are typical of the Philly fans who don't know a good thing when they have one.(booing Mike Schmidt for example) That is one of the toughest towns on players/coaches in all of sports.

Interesting point though, who knows how it should have gone.
 
Wes, I am from south jersey original. But I do not boo Santa Claus like most Eagle fans did. I am complaining about the strategy in that game (and the sloppy discipline that allowed 13 players to be on the field for a punt and cost the game). These Eagles are inarguably the best team since the 79 superbowl squad, and Im hoping they get in this time. But I expect the head coach to be able to do the math and know what a win requires.

Again, down ten points with 37 seconds, in field goal range, you have to kick the field goal. If I learned anything playing John Madden football, it is that.
 
I don't see it the same way. You don't HAVE to kick the FG. Both situations are very unlikely. Philly had a 4th down with 57 seconds left from the 36 (a 53 yard attempt) and a 4th on the 22 with 24 seconds left (39 yard attempt). Which one are you in reference to? If you really mean 36 seconds left, they had a 2 and 10 from the 22 which is not a FG situation and wouldn't ever be considered unless it was a game-tying or game-winning kick.

Assuming you mean the decision at 57 seconds left...

1. If you kick the FG AND get the onside kick, you still have to drive approximately 50-55 yards for a TD in about 50 seconds against a dime/prevent defense that will give the middle of the field only with NO timeouts.

2. If you go for it and eventually score AND get the onside kick, you still have to drive approximately 25-30 yards in less than 50 seconds, depending on how long it takes to get the TD, against a nickel or dime coverage that will force everything in front, but leave the middle of the field somewhat open, with NO timeouts.

Plus, if take the TD first and still have time left, a lucky play can win the game for you without the need of a 2-point conversion. If you kick the FG and then get the TD, you have to decide to go for the tie or the win, which leaves the coach open to more second-guessing. The other way, the point is moot because 13 points wins it.

Plus I would bet the most people would say that you have to get the 'harder' score first, which would have been the TD.

In the NFL, teams don't come back from these situations very often. I'm scared of someone who bases football arguments on Madden. It's pretty a realistic game, but come on... 10 points down with less than a minute is rarely overcome in the NFL.
 
Still, down by ten do you just kneel on the ball? No you try to win. 2nd and 10 from the 22 is field goal time if you are in overtime. Of course it is field goal time if you need clock time to score twice. And in Madden I have never succesfully onsides kicked, so really I am talking real life. There is no point in driving for a touchdown so you can lose by 3 points. Why try?

Instead, they needed to kick the fieldgoal as soon as they could (37 seconds) and then try to get the ball back. Yes the chances were slim but with no time left on the clock after the eventual td, the chances were nil!
 
Fair enough Sultan,
You let santa off the hook, that is a good thing.

You are right about discipline, temporarily.

I like Philly's approach to retaining good players. That was the right thing to do with McNabb. Several other players have also been rewarded with nice long term contracts. It will at least improve loyalty.
I can appreciate your frustration. As a PA native I have long struggled with the notion of being an Eagles fan. It has been an exercise in futility. The future is looking bright though. (but I prefer the Giants)
 
I agree with Sultan on this one. The odds are better if you kick the FG first. No matter what you need a FG and a touchdown to tie the game, so as soon as you have a chance at one, you take the points and leave yourself with as much time as possible on the clock.

I didn't see the game, but based on your descriptions, it seems to me the only chance they had of winning was to kick the FG, recover and onside kick, and then score a touchdown with one or two big plays (I know, they would have time for more than 2 plays, but you gotta figure there would be some incomplete passes.)

If i was the coach I would have kicked the FG when it was 4th down on the 36 with 57 seconds left (assuming I had faith in my kicker). That would leave approximately 40-50 seconds to move the ball about 60 yards for a touchdown (after recovering the onside kick). It's not likely, but possible.
 
Faith in a 53 FG? If it was closer, I maybe could see it, but a miss short would leave you open for a LOT of criticism...

Well, I don't agree. It seems to me that if you kick the FG and close it to 7 points, you have even further to go and the defense is likely playing a little tighter. Add in NO timeouts and I just don't see an inherent advantage in taking the 3 over the 7.
 
It was closer than 53. The bottom line, Stat Kat, is that it doesn't matter if you get within 3 points with the clock run out. YOU CAN'T WIN! You have to kick the field goal so there is time to score a touchdown. It is just logic. There is no decision. A slim chance for a victory is better than a sure shot at a 3 point loss.
 
Sultan, you are confusing logic with execution... You claim the FG first is better logically. Well, the Eagles disagreed and went for 7. While they acheived it, they had no time left. Had there been more time or they had scored quicker given the current circumstances, their logic holds just as well as yours does as they still would have had a chance to tie or win.

You also claim the FG gives you a chance to win. True, but what happens if the FG is missed? You've taken away the chance to win and given yourself, not the chance to lose, but a guaranteed loss.

Please continue to disagree with me. I really don't care. While I agree that maybe in certain situations, the 3 might make more sense, I don't see it an common conventional wisdom on the high school, college or NFL levels.

This situation is a two-sided coin and I think both ways are just about equal-unlikely and see no real benefit in either. Just stop trying to hide the other side of the coin.
 
Stat Kat - now I know your secret identity: Andy Reid!!!!

Listen, honestly, I would be happy to admit there was another way if I really thought there was. At some point during those final 37 seconds, you have to do the math and realize that you are running out of time. You have to realize that even if you score a touchdown now, you still will need time on the clock to complete the onside kick and make a pass or two to get in field goal range. That is if you still want to win, and what I think Andy and the Eagles were doing was not showing that they wanted to win, but proving that they could score with little time left. That is fine but as a fan I would prefer to see them try to win. Now the downside as you say of kicking a field goal is that you might miss, you might not get the onsides back, and the game ends down by seven or ten. But if you saw the game you saw that Donovan McNabb was pushed to exhaustion - he threw up on the field!!! So a missed field goal and an early rest while the Jags kneel on the ball was not so unnattractive an alternative.
 
You reach a point were after a choice is made, you can't go back. They had a 4th down with 57 seconds left and went for it. Why go for it there and then kick a FG two plays later just because you are less than 20 yards closer?
 
Because you have moved into field goal range!!!
 
It's just comes down to taking your pick on which miracle is going to occur... because face it, the game was over. A valiant attempt, yes... but a miracle was still needed. Both methods had a "SLIM" chance to succeed, but both methods also had BIG chances for failure...

To argue when both choices could work only if a miracle occured is kind of silly. You should be bashing your coaching for being in that situation in the first place, not a flip of a coin for a miracle choice.
 
Originally posted by Stat Kat
You reach a point were after a choice is made, you can't go back. They had a 4th down with 57 seconds left and went for it. Why go for it there and then kick a FG two plays later just because you are less than 20 yards closer?
Click to expand...

Your absolutely right about this, once he made the mistake of going for it on fourth down, he was commited to trying to score the TD.

The major error here, IMO is going for it on fourth down. Sure a 53 yarder is no gimme, but neither is a fourth down conversion. Again, as I said above, I didn't see the game, so I don't know how many yards they needed to convert. However, even if its only 6 inches it is still not a garunteed to work.
 
Originally posted by Ming
It's just comes down to taking your pick on which miracle is going to occur... because face it, the game was over. A valiant attempt, yes... but a miracle was still needed. Both methods had a "SLIM" chance to succeed, but both methods also had BIG chances for failure...

To argue when both choices could work only if a miracle occured is kind of silly. You should be bashing your coaching for being in that situation in the first place, not a flip of a coin for a miracle choice.
Click to expand...

I totally agree. I'm just arguing about Sultan's first point that the only 'logical' choice was a FG. It's not, period.
 
Stork, it's was a 4th and 10 from the 36. No gimme, but the odds are better than a 53-yard FG.

Sultan, I'm tired of it. You think your way. I don't care anymore. Kick your FGs everytime you get into range. Maybe you should just tape one of your Madden games and send it in to the Eagles' front office with your resume. I'm sure they consider it once they fire Reid for being so incompetent.

By the way, why haven't I heard anyone else complain about this in the national media like they did when Mike Martz had the questionable decision in the Rams' loss to the Cowboys? Maybe because Reid did the right thing or at least, a logical thing?
 
Stat Kat: by the fiery flames of that last message, I have to confirm that you ARE Andy Reid!

Okay, never mind. They were right to keep going. Obviously if the media didn't pick up on it (because nobody cares about the Eagles?) it wasn't a decision them in the know would consider wrong.

I will bring the field goal team on now, thank you.
 
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