Earliest Liberalism date by the AI?

Windsor

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On a standard fractal map with just the regular no huts no events settings. Suleiman gets Liberalism 225AD. :eek: I've never seen anyone close to that date and he didn't really have that great land either.

So it made me curious, what's the earliest liberalism date you've seen by the AI?

edit: Screenshot is from 1360AD not when he got liberalism.
 

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AI discovers Liberalism 1085 AD;
Huge Hemispheres map, raging barbs, marathon speed, Emperor level

 
In my warlord or noble difficulty maps, its usually somewhere from 900 to about 1400 AD.
That said, what difficulty were you playing on? Because that would be incredible if you were playing on any difficulty below, I'll say, Monarch. If you were playing on Immortal or Diety, I wouldn't be surprised. (But I guess then the AI would be getting tanks by 30 BC :p)
 
The earliest I ever heard (but didn't experienced it) was 25 AD or 125 AD on deity. I think that was Pericles.
 
Had a ~650AD once that I can think of. Pacal iirc, monarchy difficulty... he was working some prime land on a different continent having a religious lovefest with the neighbors. I think I rage-quit that one quite early.
 
In my warlord or noble difficulty maps, its usually somewhere from 900 to about 1400 AD.
That said, what difficulty were you playing on? Because that would be incredible if you were playing on any difficulty below, I'll say, Monarch. If you were playing on Immortal or Diety, I wouldn't be surprised. (But I guess then the AI would be getting tanks by 30 BC :p)

It was deity, but I've played quite a few deity games by now and never experienced anything below 500AD so when I saw 225AD I got really surprised.
 
Warlords deity could get it in the BCs. I saw an Emperor AI get it at 600 AD once (!). I've actually never seen it faster than that on immortal lol.

Early AD's is the fastest I've seen it in BTS.
 
I simply don't understand why deity Warlords AI are so succesful...bigger handicaps than BTS?
Or is it better AI overall?
 
It is definitely interesting to take a quick glance and compare...XMLs...

Deity Warlords

Code:
<iAIAnimalBonus>-70</iAIAnimalBonus>
			<iAIBarbarianBonus>-40</iAIBarbarianBonus>
			<iStartingDefenseUnits>0</iStartingDefenseUnits>
			<iStartingWorkerUnits>0</iStartingWorkerUnits>
			<iStartingExploreUnits>0</iStartingExploreUnits>
			<iAIStartingUnitMultiplier>1</iAIStartingUnitMultiplier>
			<iAIStartingDefenseUnits>4</iAIStartingDefenseUnits>
			<iAIStartingWorkerUnits>2</iAIStartingWorkerUnits>
			<iAIStartingExploreUnits>1</iAIStartingExploreUnits>
			<iBarbarianDefenders>4</iBarbarianDefenders>
			<iAIDeclareWarProb>100</iAIDeclareWarProb>
			<iAIWorkRateModifier>100</iAIWorkRateModifier>
			<iAIGrowthPercent>60</iAIGrowthPercent>
			<iAITrainPercent>60</iAITrainPercent>
			<iAIWorldTrainPercent>100</iAIWorldTrainPercent>
			<iAIConstructPercent>60</iAIConstructPercent>
			<iAIWorldConstructPercent>100</iAIWorldConstructPercent>
			<iAICreatePercent>60</iAICreatePercent>
			<iAIWorldCreatePercent>100</iAIWorldCreatePercent>
			<iAICivicUpkeepPercent>60</iAICivicUpkeepPercent>
			<iAIUnitCostPercent>60</iAIUnitCostPercent>
			<iAIUnitSupplyPercent>10</iAIUnitSupplyPercent>
			<iAIUnitUpgradePercent>5</iAIUnitUpgradePercent>
			<iAIInflationPercent>20</iAIInflationPercent>
			<iAIWarWearinessPercent>20</iAIWarWearinessPercent>
			<iAIPerEraModifier>-5</iAIPerEraModifier>

Deity BTS

Code:
<iAIAnimalBonus>-40</iAIAnimalBonus>
			<iAIBarbarianBonus>-25</iAIBarbarianBonus>
			<iStartingDefenseUnits>0</iStartingDefenseUnits>
			<iStartingWorkerUnits>0</iStartingWorkerUnits>
			<iStartingExploreUnits>0</iStartingExploreUnits>
			<iAIStartingUnitMultiplier>1</iAIStartingUnitMultiplier>
			<iAIStartingDefenseUnits>4</iAIStartingDefenseUnits>
			<iAIStartingWorkerUnits>1</iAIStartingWorkerUnits>
			<iAIStartingExploreUnits>1</iAIStartingExploreUnits>
			<iBarbarianDefenders>4</iBarbarianDefenders>
			<iAIDeclareWarProb>100</iAIDeclareWarProb>
			<iAIWorkRateModifier>100</iAIWorkRateModifier>
			<iAIGrowthPercent>80</iAIGrowthPercent>
			<iAITrainPercent>60</iAITrainPercent>
			<iAIWorldTrainPercent>100</iAIWorldTrainPercent>
			<iAIConstructPercent>60</iAIConstructPercent>
			<iAIWorldConstructPercent>100</iAIWorldConstructPercent>
			<iAICreatePercent>60</iAICreatePercent>
			<iAIWorldCreatePercent>100</iAIWorldCreatePercent>
			<iAICivicUpkeepPercent>60</iAICivicUpkeepPercent>
			<iAIUnitCostPercent>60</iAIUnitCostPercent>
			<iAIUnitSupplyPercent>50</iAIUnitSupplyPercent>
			<iAIUnitUpgradePercent>50</iAIUnitUpgradePercent>
			<iAIInflationPercent>80</iAIInflationPercent>
			<iAIWarWearinessPercent>50</iAIWarWearinessPercent>
			<iAIPerEraModifier>-5</iAIPerEraModifier>
			<iAIAdvancedStartPercent>170</iAIAdvancedStartPercent>

And finally Vanilla.

Code:
<iAIAnimalBonus>-70</iAIAnimalBonus>
			<iAIBarbarianBonus>-40</iAIBarbarianBonus>
			<iStartingDefenseUnits>0</iStartingDefenseUnits>
			<iStartingWorkerUnits>0</iStartingWorkerUnits>
			<iStartingExploreUnits>0</iStartingExploreUnits>
			<iAIStartingUnitMultiplier>1</iAIStartingUnitMultiplier>
			<iAIStartingDefenseUnits>4</iAIStartingDefenseUnits>
			<iAIStartingWorkerUnits>2</iAIStartingWorkerUnits>
			<iAIStartingExploreUnits>1</iAIStartingExploreUnits>
			<iBarbarianDefenders>4</iBarbarianDefenders>
			<iAIDeclareWarProb>100</iAIDeclareWarProb>
			<iAIWorkRateModifier>100</iAIWorkRateModifier>
			<iAIGrowthPercent>60</iAIGrowthPercent>
			<iAITrainPercent>60</iAITrainPercent>
			<iAIWorldTrainPercent>100</iAIWorldTrainPercent>
			<iAIConstructPercent>60</iAIConstructPercent>
			<iAIWorldConstructPercent>100</iAIWorldConstructPercent>
			<iAICreatePercent>60</iAICreatePercent>
			<iAIWorldCreatePercent>100</iAIWorldCreatePercent>
			<iAICivicUpkeepPercent>60</iAICivicUpkeepPercent>
			<iAIUnitCostPercent>60</iAIUnitCostPercent>
			<iAIUnitSupplyPercent>10</iAIUnitSupplyPercent>
			<iAIUnitUpgradePercent>5</iAIUnitUpgradePercent>
			<iAIInflationPercent>20</iAIInflationPercent>
			<iAIWarWearinessPercent>20</iAIWarWearinessPercent>
			<iAIPerEraModifier>-5</iAIPerEraModifier>


Let see the progression over versions:

Both vanilla and warlords gave unrealistic combat odd boost (-70 strength on animals) on animals, making AI losing to animals almost impossible. BTS is only -40, which is more reasonable.

For human barb units, their strength were depleted by 40% in the two first and only 25% in BTS.

Anterior Deity AI's had 2 starting workers instead of one. Imagine how fast the opening is...

Now here comes the biggest role in beefed up AI, growth:
Higher the difficulty, smaller is the food bin to get a growth of population.
Both in Vanilla and Warlords, the correspondent bin compared to the human player was 60%. BTS is 80%. 20% of difference!!!
This explains why the AI is so powerful in their research power. Since the AI favors growth immensely...

Regarding buildings cost, I saw no changes over versions. Same for units. So, in the production department, we see no differences. Stack aren't much bigger (but could be because of cities growing faster).

Civic Upkeeps are the same over the versions.
Same for unit upkeeps.
Supplies for units outside borders should not matter as the AI is not in wars all the time and most units tend to remain within culture, but we see a major difference as both Vanilla and Warlords are not affected economically by wars. Earlier versions see supply cost 10% of what a human would undergoes. BTS is 50%. Ouch! Not to note espionage did not exist, so no 20% slider on espionage while wars in previous versions.

Now comes the most ridiculous aspects of both Vanilla and Warlords: upgrade cost.
ONLY 5% of what a human player would pay!! In BTS, it's 50% for all difficulty levels.

Another horrible aspect is the inflation rate. Yes, the AI has some. Vanilla and Warlords, it's 20% of what a human player would undergo in comparable date. In BTS, it is 80%! 60% of difference.

War weariness were once 20% of what a human would suffer, but now with BTS, it's 50%. Again, war is nothing serious for AI's.

Overall, we can clearly see what happens:

The AI was taught how to whip in Warlords, so get the infra faster than Vanilla.
I suspect AI improvements were made in Warlords since Vanilla.
Previously, the AI vertical development speed was infernal.
Production wise, it is the same, but vertical production indeed helps AI in that regard.
Almost no inflation and this is probably one major aspect why the AI teched like mad scientists.
Wars have no effect on them with almost no war weariness and no unit upkeep for supplies. So the warmongers are less victimized by their self-destructive war rolls.

The ultimate challenge: combine exaggerated upgrade cost and a lightspeed tech rate.
I give you 10 seconds to mull over this:

No need to massively build units as they'll upgrade their previous to newer ones with almost no cost. OUCH ouch ouch!

It still doesn't explain the difference between Vanilla and Warlords on deity as most all pertinent parameters are the same. Only explanation: better AI over time.

Tip: If you got a vassals on deity warlords, flourish by all means your relationships with him/her as the gains from vassals are enormous.

After all, deity Warlords is Sid level on CivIII.
 
I haven't played it to Liberalism, yet, but the other day I had Surry seemingly beeline CoL on the same turn as popping a GS and so bulbed Philo on the same turn way, way before 1AD. If he were PHI to pump out a couple more GS or FIN, I'd be worried about the midgame...
 
On Prince, I once saw Zara Yaqob doing it in 1100s. On Monarch, the earliest AI Lib date I've seen is 1210 AD (Washington).
 
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