Early Domination Victory

[Unresolved]

So I was looking at the GoTM 52 replays and the top players were doing an early domination rush to win at turn 127+. Since domination is the one victory type I haven't been able to do on Immortal, I decided to change my routine 4-city tradition game for an (attempted) early domination victory with crossbows. I used England on Pangaea for their longbows and I was doing okay having captured 4 capitals by turn 164, but the game had gone on too long and the remaining civs started to out-tech me military-wise. Part of my failure was the awful terrain and map I was on which severely hampered my troop movement.

My early game consisted of building only libraries and monuments and then spamming out troops. I eventually built the NC and some happiness buildings since I already had two full armies and troops took forever to catch up with the rest of my units. I went two policies deep into liberty for the settler and then 2 deep into honor for the +50% experience. The game went pretty well(in my opinion) for my first try at a domination rush, but obviously my strategy requires some tweaking. I'd like to be able to win with crossbows, so the game would have to be over probably before turn 175. Any early domination experts out there with any advice?

 

[Moriarte]

Tradition is equally good for this kind of endeavor. You will likely stay small at start (3-4 cities) and won't build roads (maybe trade routes for your core cities), so tradition happiness bonus outweights liberty's one. Plus, you get free monuments . Not having to build monuments is good, because archers will come out sooner, and you can rush your first victim earlier. You want a granary in your cap, possibly in one other city. Don't need NC.

Liberty, on the other hand gives you a free GS for unlocking crossbows, so, these two trees are pretty close, imo.

Not sure about the value of military tradition for this type of game. The game is over before you can enjoy it's benefits. Full tradition helps reaching Xbows a little bit faster.

2 armies with 7-8 xbows/2 meele each is good. Might want a 3rd army later, depending on terrain, and where civs are.

By the way, i am pretty sure all this can be done with CB's on some maps. (immortal) And for that, liberty is the best .

 

[Unresolved]

Is there much benefit in filling out a whole tree? Since I basically ignore the top part of the tech tree, my culture rate is pretty bad and I think that I'd finish tradition/liberty when I'm already very far into my war campaigns. I wasn't sure about military tradition, but I went for it because I checked out the save file for the T127 domination victory.

 

[Moriarte]

Depends. If you play safely (aiming for crossbows) it is worth it. If you go with CBs all the way, military tradition is good. You might not reach it though. If you're lucky with cultural CS quests, you might reach it in time.

 

[Unresolved]

How do you win with CB's? Beeline construction and then spam them out like no tomorrow?

 

[Moriarte]

Yep. Aim for turn 50 CB upgrade.

If i were you, i would first try to win with Xboys though.

 

[Unresolved]

Hmm, maybe I'll try that in the next few days. I'm not sure I'm good enough though since I'm not particularly competent at equal-tech wars. Last question before I go to bed, do you research amphitheater's if you're going for a full tradition/liberty start? Or just writing->machinery? Thanks for all the help .

 

[Moriarte]

You're welcome. No amphis.

 

[Unresolved]

Hmm, I played another half a game with England before I messed up my war timing. I went for a full tradition start and the free monuments was really, really nice. But I didn't find the other policies super useful for what I was trying to do. Next game I'll try full liberty since the GP finisher sounds much more useful. The map/terrain were much better this time around, so moving my armies was much quicker. I eliminated 2 civs a little past T100 I think and I was in position to take out 2 more capitals rapidly. But with 10 turns left on machinery, my two armies were still moving to their respective targets and I was left on equal tech with the AI and a less-than-optimal war strategy. I think I should have waited the 10 turns to upgrade into Longbows and then steamroll the other civs.

 

[Moriarte]

I played a game too (with Pachacuti). Finished on turn 130. Went 3 city tradition (to monarchy) and then military tradition. Lucky ruin gave me +1 culture from pastures. I was actually planning to do pure CB rush, but after 2 armies (and colleseums) were finished i had nothing else to build (2 armies of 8CB 2 horse each anyway) so i did libraries everywhere. On turn 110 i reached machinery, which was helpful against last civ i had left to kill. (France).

 

[Unresolved]

Nice finish time. Was that on deity or immortal? And how do you finish off different civs so quickly? It seems like it takes me forever to move between civs. Did military tradition help you at all?

 

[Moriarte]

Yes, i think MT helped. I got Cover 2 promotions really fast. To be fair, i could do this with just cover 1 though. Then again, you never know how many of them are hiding in the fog..

Immortal. For Deity one needs artillery, bombers, tanks, the whole shebang .'

And how do you finish off different civs so quickly?

Incan UA was really helpful there. Ability to move on top of hills without losing turn is very powerful.

 

[Unresolved]

So you go for cover 1/2 before logistics/range and use your archers to tank city damage? Sounds better than trying it with a spearman.

 

[Moriarte]

Yeah, i tend to lose warriors/spears when taking cities. Horsemen are fragile, but they can snipe from safe distance and live longer with good care.

 

[Unresolved]

I pretty much insta-lose warriors to cities, so I don't even bother with them. Spearmen were nice because they are durable enough to take a few hits. But I guess having cover on your archers lets you rotate the tanking unit out.

 

[glory7]

If it is not deity level, as long as the map is pangea you can finish with CBs. It may need some practice though. As moriarte mentioned, safe way is to finish with Xbows.

For gotm52, I used "safer" Xbow rush and got t133 and "risky" CB all-in and got t101. Of course, the second one was replay but I tried not to use any map advantage.

For fast rush, just ignore your science. You get writing only if you need to check cap locations with embassy. No time to build libraries. If you have hammer to get one lib, use it for one more unit or happy building.

I personally prefer liberty. Go for free settler first. Try to get workers from other civs, as usual. Don't worry about diplo penalty after t50-60 when you start your CB rush. Before free settler, get scout - monument - granary if you have some wheat or dear, and just archers. Mass archers.

Once you get free settler, plant it on mining lux hill if possible. Cap pop should be at least 4 by this timing, and now pump up 1-2 more settlers. Always settle your cities on top of lux, on hill if possible, next to river if possible. Don't care about "optimal" position - all you need it like pop 3 cities that can churn out archers/CBs.

For expos, your choice - all-in with archers or you may build monument/granary.

After lux tech, go straight to const. You should have at least 8-10 archers before getting it around t50-60. Upgrade them near your first victim and go. 5-6 CBs and 1-2 melee units can kill anyone at this time. Say this one is Army #1. All new units that were produced after this timing should go for opposite direction, say Army #2. You may need Army #3 later, but for simplicity, just go for 2 armies. Each army needs 5-7 CBs and 1-2 melee (warrior/spearman to start, and add horseman if possible).

For gold, sell lux asap and start to get cash out of your first victim (pay him say 4 gpt and get 90 lump sum) like 10 turns before your attack. Make sure he won't have any lump sum gold to rush buy units - his gpt would be high but it's all illusion, as when you declare war it will be gone. His gold should be used to upgrade your archers to CBs.

For policy, it just doesn't matter - you don't need logistics to finish up the game. If promotion saving is enabled, just keep promotions and use it for insta heal for most cases. if you get 3rd upgrade, I usually go for march promotion so that range units can deal damage while healing. You can go w/e you want with sp.

Once you learn the first 60 turns, it would be much easier to play quick domination games. Practice with gotm 46 and gotm 52. Let me know if you have more questions.

 

[Unresolved]

Thanks a lot for all the useful tips. What turn is recommended to get machinery if I'm going for the 'safe' domination? Turn 100ish?

 

[glory7]

Thanks a lot for all the useful tips. What turn is recommended to get machinery if I'm going for the 'safe' domination? Turn 100ish?

t100 would be good enough. If you start with good hammer position you may try to beeline for GL (especially pop writing early from ruin) and use it with pop phil, and build NC with 2nd city. However, for safe play you just play normal game (I meant, without wonders). If you can have messenger of gods, you can safely get machinery before t100.

Don't forget to pay AIs to fight each other, as it will help you a lot.

 

[RedRover57]

@glory7 That's a great strategy for any map where you have a close neighbor - works like a charm. The problem I now have is that I almost want to use that strategy in every game - it's just so addicting (and so good). It would be nice if it was worthwhile to actually build siege units, but I almost never build them anymore since comp bows/crossbows are so good in the early game and by the time you get artillery you could have bombers instead as you could have focused more on the top half of the tech tree (for better science).

 

[Buccaneer]

I think I have lost my ability to do a successful early CB rush on Immortal. Playing as Russia, I have Paris in a sweet spot about 10 hexes from my capital (with a new Russian city) in betweem. My problem is that I feel that I need to get there early with CB, so that limits my quantity (usually 4-5). But France had the largest army and I went against 4-5 CB plus a few more other units. If I waited to get 6-8, they would've had more of everything. In the past, I've been successful with an early UU or pre-G&K Chivalry, but now I don't know to get the quantity and quality needed. What do you advise?