Early Game Benchmarks?

Calyxx

Warlord
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I've now played (and won) 4 full games of Civ VI, all in the prince - emperor range. I think I am now familiar enough with the game to start attempting to play better, and the best place to start optimizing is the early game.

My current game - terrain, neighbor, and barbarian depending - is to quickly build up a force of 4-6 slingers, hopefully with a builder thrown in after either 1 or 2 slingers are completed. I use the slingers to hit the eureka for Archery, upgrade them to Archers, and then along with 1-2 warriors go conquer my nearest neighbor. This can be made much more difficult depending on the spawn rate of barbarian camps (which sometimes seems like it occurs every 3-4 turns) and whether or not those barbarian camps spawn horsemen, which can be a huge pain.

Despite the barbarians, this phase of the game tends to go fairly smoothly, and from what I can tell from these forums is a fairly typical opening. At this point, I generally have my capital plus 1-2 cities from my neighbor, and if I am really lucky another city from a captured settler. However, I likely only have 3 improved tiles around my capital and maybe a captured worker, with no districts, no monument, and no granary.

Taking out my neighbor gives me a bit of room to expand, and I try to fill the available space using the +50% settler production policy while frantically defending against what is often a huge number of barbarians with my small army of Archers. Eventually, things stabilize, I switch to the policy for workers, and improve my land and then start building districts. I start with a commercial district, and begin trying to get trade routes going. I will usually build a harbor district if available, and an industrial district in nearly every city. I tend to ignore the entertainment district until much later.

My main problem with this is that there is an incredible amount to do and very little time in which to do it. Currently the ancient and classical eras seem to fly by, and all of a sudden I'm in the medieval still trying to build ancient infrastructure. I'd appreciate critique of my approach or specific things to watch out for.

More specifically, I would appreciate average benchmarks to measure against. Events like:
  1. What turn marks the end of your closest neighbor?
  2. What turn do you generally enter the classical/medieval/renaissance eras?
  3. What turn do you generally switch to your first government?
  4. What turn do you generally stop expanding?
  5. What turn do you start your first district, and what is it?
  6. When do your first cultural/science districts go up?
Any other benchmarks that may be useful are also welcome. Thanks in advance for any responses, and I appreciate you actually reading this surprisingly lengthy post.
 
By turn 35, I usually try to have a basic military force of 3-4 Archers and 2-3 Warriors.

Around turn 80, I might begin a Commercial Hub in the capital (if I have enough cities, typically 17+), but usually later.

By turn 100, I'd like to have at least 12 cities, conquered or settled. By that time, I want at least to be building a Commercial Hub in my core cities.

By turn 125, I usually stop expanding, since cities after that tend to be underdeveloped and don't contribute that much.
 
What ShinigamiKenji said sounds about right. 1 is really game-dependent, if you have a goal for that you'll end up reloading a lot of maps where it just isn't possible.

Since the patch I've been building only 3 IZs (maybe 4 if there's been a lot of expansion), aiming to get the most overlap. Every city builds either a CD or an IZ first, then the victory one. One central / high overlap city starts with an EZ and builds Colosseum, starting around T100.

I like to build a lot of builders through the game (in all cities with cards) so that new cities get chops and improvements straight away, and every rainforest / swamp is chopped as soon as possible as it comes into my borders - I don't know if this is optimal.

Are you placing each district as soon as possible? It's a bit of a pain keeping track of which city just turned 4 or 7 or 10 but it brings the cost down a lot. Also pays to hold back on tech until a lot of districts are placed - focusing more on production rather than tech might help with that feeling that you're not keeping up with the times.

Also I think it's usually best to finish the CD and victory district before the buildings - e.g. go CD, Campus, trader first and then market, library etc.
 
By turn 35, I usually try to have a basic military force of 3-4 Archers and 2-3 Warriors.

Around turn 80, I might begin a Commercial Hub in the capital (if I have enough cities, typically 17+), but usually later.

By turn 100, I'd like to have at least 12 cities, conquered or settled. By that time, I want at least to be building a Commercial Hub in my core cities.

By turn 125, I usually stop expanding, since cities after that tend to be underdeveloped and don't contribute that much.

Is this applicable on all game levels? I can see how 12 cities might even be easier on emperor or above. I tested this at prince (using France) and had only 11 cities at turn 96 on Prince difficulty, eliminating Tomyris and Teddy in the process and only racking up a -30 warmonger rating with Cleo which makes me wonder if there is any diplomatic penalty for eliminating a civ. I could have done things better I am sure to get 12 by turn 100.
 
I liked a comment I saw by @elitetroops once that said for the science GOTM it was better playing at deity as the AI made cities faster for you to destroy.

The game is very much level dependent for size benchmarks. There is also those that play a peaceful longer game that want different benchmarks.

There is disagreement over first districts, campus, commercial, encampment all have some valudity. What is definately true is commercial rules over all initially to get internal growth through trade routes. My first is currently campus but can be harbour or commercial, just depends on situation.

What seem to be fair benchmarks are around 5-10 cities by turn 100 ... But I have won on emporer building only 2 by turn 100 so the benchmark I guess is aimed at optimal so the real answer is expand like crazy to turn 100 (20 cities if you can but consider amenities) beelining government, then feudalism for civics and IZ machinery and factories for science mainly for the increased production bonuses. These are things that should be done by about turn 100-120 so you can then settle into what you want to do next.

Theaters tend to go up last and it is easy to lag behind culturally, initially. If you can get a good culture boost early it helps ... But theatres are not the best way of doing so.
 
Theaters tend to go up last and it is easy to lag behind culturally, initially. If you can get a good culture boost early it helps ... But theatres are not the best way of doing so.
I always struggle with culture even when I prioritise monuments in new cities and there always seems to be a better district to build than theatre
 
I find that I usually fall behind on culture early, then I panic and over-develop it, and I rip through the second half of the culture tree.

For the most part, 1 monument in each city is usually enough for me to keep pace, and I might built 1 or 2 cultural districts later on if I happened to end up with a GP I can't otherwise use.

My games have typically had 1 CD in every city, 1 HD in every city that can have one, 1 campus (in my current game I have a campus square COMPLETELY surrounded by mountains on all six sides, it is glorious), sometimes a second campus if there's a great spot or need for it (i.e., I'll need one in the above-referenced game since I can't get GS to the one that is blocked in). Around a 3:5 ratio of ID to cities, maybe 1-2 EZ if needed, and usually encampments where needed to provide an extra defense point. As far as I can tell, encampment XP boosts don't seem to help all that much.

What am I missing... oh, TD. 1 or 2 if I've got nothing better to do late.

My build order is typically:
(1) Scout
(2) Slinger
(3) Slinger
(4) Builder

Usually I can buy that builder, though, but I really try to save up to buy a settler.
 
By turn 35, I usually try to have a basic military force of 3-4 Archers and 2-3 Warriors.

Around turn 80, I might begin a Commercial Hub in the capital (if I have enough cities, typically 17+), but usually later.

By turn 100, I'd like to have at least 12 cities, conquered or settled. By that time, I want at least to be building a Commercial Hub in my core cities.

By turn 125, I usually stop expanding, since cities after that tend to be underdeveloped and don't contribute that much.

Thank you for this, it is very helpful. I generally follow a similar path (maybe 5-10 turns behind you), but I feel like I am in the Medieval era before I know it, and before I have completed too many of the commercial districts. It just takes so long to produce most stuff.
 
Maximising trade routes can help. Have one city that you grow as much as possible (chop rainforest and swamp etc) and prioritise building the max # of districts there (again chop forest, don't build anything else if districts aren't completed). Then you have a +2 or 3 food and +2 or 3 prod city to send trade routes too. This is a big boost for new cities - I try to give each new city one "round" of this to help them get CD + Victory districts up.

Having lower expectations of what can be built can help too. For a city built T100 I basically expect just CD, victory district, market and victory buildings by the end of the game. Maybe a builder or 2, monument along the way and some projects at the end.. but not much more.
 
Thank you for this, it is very helpful. I generally follow a similar path (maybe 5-10 turns behind you), but I feel like I am in the Medieval era before I know it, and before I have completed too many of the commercial districts. It just takes so long to produce most stuff.

Except for some Great People, I don't think you miss much going straight for Machinery/Apprenticeship/Stirrups. Many Commercial Hubs of mine stay on hold while I prepare Builders for Feudalism, and then get resumed next. I never found it to be such a loss (but usually I'll have at least 2 up)
 
You really should try a game with the target to get 100 envoys @ShinigamiKenji
I have no issue with beelining but because you do not mention them as a consideration perhaps you have not appreciated the value they can bring. Not just with the Merchant confederation card but just with the overall value combined that they pump into your cities.
Of course if you are just killing everything that is different but is a dull game IMO
 
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You really should try a game with the target to get 100 envoys @ShinigamiKenji
I have no issue with beelining but because you do not mention them as a consideration perhaps you have not appreciated the value they can bring. Not just with the Merchant confederation card but just with the overall value combined that they pump into your cities.
Of course if you are just killing everything that is different but is a dull game IMO

I know CS bonuses are quite good, and you get quests after each era, but I don't feel I'm lacking envoys. But then, I don't play large maps with lots of CS since turns take so long. I can see how it may be an issue if you play large maps or faster speeds (I don't remember if those points get adjusted by game speed).

I'll try after I finish my investigation on GP costs.
 
You really should try a game with the target to get 100 envoys @ShinigamiKenji
I have no issue with beelining but because you do not mention them as a consideration perhaps you have not appreciated the value they can bring. Not just with the Merchant confederation card but just with the overall value combined that they pump into your cities.
Of course if you are just killing everything that is different but is a dull game IMO

Other than running the relevant diplomatic policies (1st envoy counts as 2, +2 envoy points / turn) and the government that gives you an additional % of envoy points each turn, how do you affect this? Is it just trying to fulfill each quest prior to advancing in age?

I do like the city states in this iteration - they are far more fun and meaningful to interact with than in Civ V. I have particularly noticed the financial city states as being powerful, based solely on the number of commercial districts I often end up building. For just 3 envoys I can usually get +40-60 gpt, and that is without even considering the bonus to my capital or the potential Suzerain bonus.
 
Yes the tasks are a big factor, swapping in the 2 envoy card for newly met CS when you get an envoy, your government gives you envoy points and there are a few other cards further up like +2 envoys if someone else is suze.
Its not that hard to get 30-40 by about turn 150. A good whack of gold with the merchant confederation card.... And good old gunboat diplomacy is great. Having potala palace for the task makes it much shorter.
 
I've slotted Raj too while being suzerain of almost every CS in my game. I felt it was also substantial.

Someone in some thread said that Arsenal of Democracy (trade routes to an ally's city provide +2 food, +2 production for both cities) work for vassal* CS. Is that true?

*Because if I'm the suzerain, then they should be vassals.
 
Yes if suze, they are an ally.
Suze of most of your CS, that is pretty hard. I think I have been suze of about 12 at once in which case raj gave me 24 culture which was not super huge at that time of the game. + the gold ofc
Merchant confederation gave me 70 gold at the time which combined with triangular trade really helped.
Meritocracy seems a better card than Raj, I tend to want a culture card or a gold card, Raj I just never use mainly because its not normally worth fighting for suze and there is a lot of competition. I struggle using any ally card, the benefits are just a bit meh

Wrong thread for further discussion, a touch off topic.
 
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