Elder Scrolls V: Oblivion Part 2?

[Maniacal]

I think the most exciting part of what i've heard so far for me at least has been the randomly generating missions, i've always pretty much ignored the main quest in all the elder scrolls and just played for the experience, so this should have a big impact on that style of play hopefully, making the game last a lot longer content-wise.

Of course they said similar awesome stuff about the much-touted radiant "AI" in Oblivion too, so I am rather skeptical (but hopeful).

 

[civ_king]

Of course they said similar awesome stuff about the much-touted radiant "AI" in Oblivion too, so I am rather skeptical (but hopeful).

They now have much better hardware to play with

 

[Maniacal]

They now have much better hardware to play with

That wasn't the problem, they problem was they made it sound like this really cool feature, but in reality it wasn't that huge of an improvement (though it did help reduce the lifelessness a bit).

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Yeah, I'm not sure those random missions would be any good.

 

[Rub'Rum]

This is why following game developments has become rather absurd. Touted features are disappointing on a 50/50 basis so you might as well not know about them beforehand.

 

[MkLh]

If you imagine the game as having an important story element and not just as a simulator of real life, than FT absolutely makes sense. You don't want to watch a movie that is shot in real time, and sit through characters sleeping, using the restroom, sitting around, etc. You only want the exciting stuff.

But FT doesn't fit well with the open world concept. What's the point of having huge areas of wasteland if one can just ignore most of it and teleport to those few places that have any real importance? There is probably a reason why there wasn't FT in for example GTA-series. I'm still tempted to allow FT in games with large areas. It just shows that the open world concept is somewhat overhyped - with FT it really doesn't matter if the game is linear or sandbox, and without it the open world may just mean some pointless travelling through wastelands.

 

[PeteAtoms]

But FT doesn't fit well with the open world concept. What's the point of having huge areas of wasteland if one can just ignore most of it and teleport to those few places that have any real importance? There is probably a reason why there wasn't FT in for example GTA-series. I'm still tempted to allow FT in games with large areas. It just shows that the open world concept is somewhat overhyped - with FT it really doesn't matter if the game is linear or sandbox, and without it the open world may just mean some pointless travelling through wastelands.

Yep. If the world is a boring wasteland than FT makes sense. Bypassing unimportant chores to reach the important goals makes sense to me.

I don't get what you're actually trying to say. FT is bad because a player should be forced to sit through repetitive, unimportant, tediousness? How can that be??

* If the world were more dynamic, and walking back and forth from Bruma to Bravil was a new experience every time, than I would never use FT. But if you encounter the same Bandit, Boar and Wolf along the way, every single time, I'd get pretty frustrated.

 

[civ_king]

But FT doesn't fit well with the open world concept. What's the point of having huge areas of wasteland if one can just ignore most of it and teleport to those few places that have any real importance? There is probably a reason why there wasn't FT in for example GTA-series. I'm still tempted to allow FT in games with large areas. It just shows that the open world concept is somewhat overhyped - with FT it really doesn't matter if the game is linear or sandbox, and without it the open world may just mean some pointless travelling through wastelands.

While I use fast travel a lot in Oblivion I have also explored every single nook and cranny of the map.

 

[MkLh]

Yep. If the world is a boring wasteland than FT makes sense. Bypassing unimportant chores to reach the important goals makes sense to me.

I don't get what you're actually trying to say. FT is bad because a player should be forced to sit through repetitive, unimportant, tediousness? How can that be??

* If the world were more dynamic, and walking back and forth from Bruma to Bravil was a new experience every time, than I would never use FT. But if you encounter the same Bandit, Boar and Wolf along the way, every single time, I'd get pretty frustrated.

The point is that why should they make a vast open world if the players will largely ignore it by fast travelling between few important locations? They could as well do it like it's done in Dragon Age: Origins - there isn't any, or at least not much, needless empty wilderness between the places that have any importance for the story. FT and the fact that most players want it kind of proves that an open world is more or less irrelevant for gaming experience. It would be better if they would concentrate more in engaging story than creating a big but empty world. The story was a weak part in Obilivion, and computer-generated quests in Skyrim don't sound promising.

 

[Clement]

The point is that why should they make a vast open world if the players will largely ignore it by fast travelling between few important locations? They could as well do it like it's done in Dragon Age: Origins - there isn't any, or at least not much, needless empty wilderness between the places that have any importance for the story.

This is why i don't play any bioware games, i've always wanted freedom and exploration from my rpg's and a storyline that i make up myself, not a fixed one handed to me, the elder scrolls have always typified large open spaces with a seemingly living, breathing world ready to be explored, it has always been the rpg of choice for those who value emergent gameplay above storyline, personally i think fast travel sucks, but it's a good compromise between those two different types of rpg, it allows the explorers to explore and the those who just want a storyline to follow it should they wish, if elder scrolls ever got rid of it's sandbox nature i'd stop buying it.

FT and the fact that most players want it kind of proves that an open world is more or less irrelevant for gaming experience. It would be better if they would concentrate more in engaging story than creating a big but empty world. The story was a weak part in Obilivion, and computer-generated quests in Skyrim don't sound promising.

I disagree, there are many people who wait for elder scrolls above all other rpg's for the simple reason that it has a vast exciting world to explore, the story was weak in Oblivion and i think that's a good thing, it allowed those with imagination to make their own story as they played because the world itself was so rich and immersive, if i want a linear storyline with a fixed ending i'l read a book, but this is irrelevant, there is room in the elder scrolls for both types of play, fast travel is a decent compromise.

 

[Maniacal]

Yeah I never finished the main story in Oblivion. I spent most of my time running around exploring, doing quests, sight seeing and house mod touring.

 

[Mustakrakish]

The point is that why should they make a vast open world if the players will largely ignore it by fast travelling between few important locations? They could as well do it like it's done in Dragon Age: Origins - there isn't any, or at least not much, needless empty wilderness between the places that have any importance for the story. FT and the fact that most players want it kind of proves that an open world is more or less irrelevant for gaming experience. It would be better if they would concentrate more in engaging story than creating a big but empty world. The story was a weak part in Obilivion, and computer-generated quests in Skyrim don't sound promising.

You seriously miss the point, as Clement pointed out for you. Elder scrolls is not about the stupid storyline that Bioware focuses on so much. It's about diving into a new world and explore it and gameplay above all, not storyline.

"It would be better if they would concentrate more in engaging story than..." - Are you kidding me?! Hell NO!!! While I liked DA:O (playing it right now even), I'm sick and tired of "RPG's" with over concentration on the story and "deep" characters, placing it above gameplay. Deep characters? Yeah, so fun to just sit through their chit chat, just choosing the lines that will give you most approval. Because why not? Why would you not? Every interaction involves saving the game, listening, trying out lines, reloading, picking the best ones, repeat... Ugh... You simply clean up every quest, kill everything that is killable, take the most profitable actions. It provides choice? What choice? I'm forced to accept and do every quest, fight everything that can be fought with. Why? Because I lose on the XP otherwise and there is nowhere else to be found, now is there? I can't just go to the countryside and kill some darkspawn, now can I? I'm forced to take the choices that gives me most money. Again for the same reason. There is only so much money to earn and I must earn it all if I want to get those expensive, most powerful items.

I craved for years now for a game where I could play for a half a day without doing a single quest, just exploring the countryside, dungeons, settlements etc. and actually leveling up in the process. F the story! Announcement of Skyrim was like a second coming, a sip of cold water on hot sunny day, breath of fresh air... etc.

 

[Rub'Rum]

Yeah I never finished the main story in Oblivion. I spent most of my time running around exploring, doing quests, sight seeing and house mod touring.

ditto. And actually advancing in the story worsened the experience (multiplication of ugly Oblivion gates)

 

[Mustakrakish]

ditto. And actually advancing in the story worsened the experience (multiplication of ugly Oblivion gates)

Amen brother.

 

[PeteAtoms]

There ought to be a way to decline quests that get forced onto the player. Things like the nirnroot quest, the bruma one w/ the glitched ring, etc.

More control and functionality of the journal tab. Things like a codex for compiled lore learned in game, a keyword search that I think morrowind had, etc.

 

[civ_king]

It would be cool if you have an empty book at start and you flesh out information like with a monster manual, effective tactics and so on with the option of passing it on to later characters, as if multiple characters could inhabit a map.

I want to play a pure warrior make an awesome keep, play a mage awesome tower, play a thief and jack my other characters stuff, go back to my mage hire a Dark Brotherhood hit on the thief and then murder the thief as a Dark Brotherhood mission.

 

[thelastmccabe]

I loved oblivion for a while and really enjoyed exploring the world (particularly the countryside). But the leveling system and the scaling ended up killing the experience for me. The fact that my character seems to be getting weaker as I level up really bothers me, and I haven't played since it became apparent. I realize that I could just adjust the difficulty slider, but for some reason that really bothers me too. I have it for PS3 so I can't just use mods to fix it--oblivion isn't going to run well on my crappy little laptop. I suppose that I could make a new guy and do all the min / maxing stuff I'd have to do so I actually get stronger (or stay the same) as I level, but that would again suck enjoyment out of the game.

I've never really understood the necessity for the level scaling to be honest, except maybe for the main storyline. It seems like it might be a more interesting and immersive world if there were parts of it that were actually dangerous. Fallout 1 and 2 have a totally open world where you can go anywhere (though you are sort of funneled in certain directions), but they don't have level scaling.

I don't know, just thinking about the game and how much fun it was to roam around the countryside seeing all the pretty scenery makes me want to pick it back up again. But I know it will probably just irritate me if I do. I hope they go a different direction with Skyrim.

 

[Maniacal]

They are continuing to work on the method of scaling they used in Fallout 3, they realize the Oblivion one didn't work so well.

 

[MkLh]

You seriously miss the point, as Clement pointed out for you. Elder scrolls is not about the stupid storyline that Bioware focuses on so much. It's about diving into a new world and explore it and gameplay above all, not storyline.

"It would be better if they would concentrate more in engaging story than..." - Are you kidding me?! Hell NO!!! While I liked DA:O (playing it right now even), I'm sick and tired of "RPG's" with over concentration on the story and "deep" characters, placing it above gameplay. Deep characters? Yeah, so fun to just sit through their chit chat, just choosing the lines that will give you most approval. Because why not? Why would you not? Every interaction involves saving the game, listening, trying out lines, reloading, picking the best ones, repeat... Ugh... You simply clean up every quest, kill everything that is killable, take the most profitable actions. It provides choice? What choice? I'm forced to accept and do every quest, fight everything that can be fought with. Why? Because I lose on the XP otherwise and there is nowhere else to be found, now is there? I can't just go to the countryside and kill some darkspawn, now can I? I'm forced to take the choices that gives me most money. Again for the same reason. There is only so much money to earn and I must earn it all if I want to get those expensive, most powerful items.

Well, options in DAO are limited but actions actually have an effect to the story, albeit some may say the effect could be even bigger. Oblivion instead has tons of possible things to do (like literally million different objects to drag or pick up) but very few of them have any larger effect to anything, and the actual story and the sidequests are IIRC very linear. You usually seem to have just one way to finish a quest, and the outcome is always the same. It's a matter of taste, but I prefer fewer meaningful options instead of a lot of meaningless things to do

 

[MkLh]

I disagree, there are many people who wait for elder scrolls above all other rpg's for the simple reason that it has a vast exciting world to explore, the story was weak in Oblivion and i think that's a good thing, it allowed those with imagination to make their own story as they played because the world itself was so rich and immersive, if i want a linear storyline with a fixed ending i'l read a book, but this is irrelevant, there is room in the elder scrolls for both types of play, fast travel is a decent compromise.

I have to disagree a bit about richness and immersiveness of the Oblivion world. It's a good try but after all there are too many things that hint it just a video game after all. Cities are really lifeless and deserted and every NPC has pretty much the same short piece of dialog. NPCs are either scripted or as interesting as zombies. In wilderness there aren't much more happening than random encounters with beasts or robbers. If someone would make a game with a truly immersive and realistic open world, that might be more interesting than story based games in my book. Oblivion just wasn't that game.