Embassy / Civ Contact Mechanic

[westamastaflash]

When I am playing a Large or Huge game, I get very tired of getting instant video-chat from civs 1/2 way across the world that want me to engage in a war against their neighbor, or open their borders to me, etc.

It'd be really nice to have a "embassy" or "contact" mechanic, where if you don't have vision of a civ's borders, your contact with them "fades" in a few turns, much like in Rhye's and Fall of Civilization.

I also propose a special "embassy" building that would grant you permanent contact with that civilization, perhaps to come at "Guilds".

Of course, you will always maintain contact with the civs who are on your council.

Any thoughts?

 

[TheJopa]

I wouldn't like to lose contact with civ that I have met, but I'd like to block, i.e. red out tech and embargo and war requests, as frequent requests annoy me to no end. I should declare war for free, but when I call another civ to my aid they just red it out or request bunch of techs? No way.

This is however a vanilla civ design flaw, so FfH and team have nothing to do with it.

 

[xalien]

The request to declare a war on a civ to which I have no means getting to is indeed very lame.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Well, I also find these problems annoyin. But in order to change em, you'd have to mod BTS. So, Idk, man.

 

[KillerClowns]

Actually, I've always imagined good ol' scrying pools, crystal balls, and other such mystical hoodoo as being the preferred mode of communication between leaders in FfH...
But the demands for wars with people I can barely even reach do bother me...

 

[snarko]

The request to declare a war on a civ to which I have no means getting to is indeed very lame.

Even worse is when they want you to declare war and you're already at war with half the world. "Sure, I'll go to war with the friendly hippus next to me who has an army three times the size of mine while I'm already losing to an alliance of the Khazad, Amurites, Doviello, Clan, Sidar and Calabim. Oh you're not gonna give me anything for my trouble? No problem, I love losing!"
That used to happend to me all the time (yes I war half the world on a regular basis) until I changed the AI to prevent it.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Oh you're not gonna give me anything for my trouble?

This is what irks me about Civ 4 diplomacy. How often will an AI go to war on your side for free? Like never, barring vassels or partners. How often do they expect you to do so? All the time. If you are nearby and have more power, they should come to you with about half of what they would offer the other side to stop the war.

Of course, if they have more power than you, then they could still simply demand your help, depending on personalty.

 

[rocklikeafool]

That used to happend to me all the time (yes I war half the world on a regular basis) until I changed the AI to prevent it.

So, how exactly did you change the AI to prevent it? Please be detailed. Cuz your change might be the solution this thread is lookin for.

 

[snarko]

Hehe, I had forgotten I made a comment right where I put the code

CvPlayerAI.cpp, AI_doDiplo function.

if (AI_getContactTimer(((PlayerTypes)iI), CONTACT_JOIN_WAR) == 0)
{
	//Don't you just hate it when the AI ask you to join their war when you're already at war with half the world?
	if (GET_TEAM(GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iI).getTeam()).getAtWarCount(true) == 0)
	{
		...
	}
}

 

[kumquatelvis]

Now if the AI came crawling to me with three techs and a resource on a plate it might actually be worth helping their sniveling selves out in their wars.

 

[Fafnir13]

It would be nice if those jerks would come bearing gifts, wouldn't it...
I mean, here I sit, on top of the world and they come saying "hey, buddy ol' pal, ya wanna go smack some heads?" No groveling? No begging? Give me a little respect here!
Heh, the diplomacy would need a lot of work before it got up to the standard this awesome team has set with the rest of their game. Without making a major overhaul, a few stabs at the more annoying bits would be nice. My personal pet peeve is how valuable they consider world maps. They all, somehow, have eachothers' maps as, when one of them FINALLY trades with you (I always have to bundle it with some tech trades) you get to see most of the known world. Is it me?

 

[snarko]

When AIs trade maps they do not take into account the value. So as long as nothing else prevent the trade (e.g. not liking eachother enough) they'll do it, even if one know most of the map including everything the other one know.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Hehe, I had forgotten I made a comment right where I put the code

CvPlayerAI.cpp, AI_doDiplo function.

if (AI_getContactTimer(((PlayerTypes)iI), CONTACT_JOIN_WAR) == 0)
{
	//Don't you just hate it when the AI ask you to join their war when you're already at war with half the world?
	if (GET_TEAM(GET_PLAYER((PlayerTypes)iI).getTeam()).getAtWarCount(true) == 0)
	{
		...
	}
}

Hmm...I don't see how that fixed it tho. Gotta give props for a good joke, however.

 

[rocklikeafool]

It would be nice if those jerks would come bearing gifts, wouldn't it...
I mean, here I sit, on top of the world and they come saying "hey, buddy ol' pal, ya wanna go smack some heads?" No groveling? No begging? Give me a little respect here!
Heh, the diplomacy would need a lot of work before it got up to the standard this awesome team has set with the rest of their game. Without making a major overhaul, a few stabs at the more annoying bits would be nice. My personal pet peeve is how valuable they consider world maps. They all, somehow, have eachothers' maps as, when one of them FINALLY trades with you (I always have to bundle it with some tech trades) you get to see most of the known world. Is it me?

Jus wanna point out that this part of the AI dates back to Vanilla Civ and BTS. The AI's always been quite snotty as far as askin you to go to war. In BTS, the AI diplo_text makes sound like they're doin you a favor simply by askin you to join in, when the reality is that they're prolly losin.

So, the only time I ever joined in was to keep one of my more powerful rivals from bein so powerful. And it usually ended up in more territory. Plus, chances are I can form a permanent alliance with the civ I jus saved after I've saved their incompitent asses, so I grow stronger in two ways.
But, yeah, back in BTS, the AI never offers technology or even gold for your help in a war. They're jus thinkin that they're your equal and don't have to. Well, it don't work that way!

 

[snarko]

Hmm...I don't see how that fixed it tho. Gotta give props for a good joke, however.

It is not a joke. That code does what I said it does, prevent the AI from asking you to join them in war when you're already at war. The ... is just a large part I cut out when I pasted it here since I didn't think it neccessary (as the CONTACT_JOIN_WAR show you where I put the code).

 

[rocklikeafool]

Huh? Explain. Cuz I'm confused. I get it ain't a joke. But how exactly did you fix it? Maybe put it in a spoiler, if you could?

 

[westamastaflash]

Huh? Explain. Cuz I'm confused. I get it ain't a joke. But how exactly did you fix it? Maybe put it in a spoiler, if you could?

This is part of the AI contact script - he put in a check to see if you are already at war. If you are, then they won't ask you to join their wars.

 

[rocklikeafool]

I unnerstand that. But I wanna know if I can borrow all of his code, so I can paste it into my files. Assumin that's ok.

 

[westamastaflash]

The other problem that I have with this whole "contact" thing is that in many fantasy worlds, the far regions are "mystical" places, and most civilizations have little knowledge of the cartography of such places. I really think map trading comes way too early, as most ancient maps were very badly made etc. I moved map trading to Astronomy in my games Now if I could just not have those civs contact me every few turns requesting "open borders"...

I'd really like a "red out" type feature where I say that I don't have my borders open to trade...

 

[Fafnir13]

I'd really like a "red out" type feature where I say that I don't have my borders open to trade...

If they can do it, why can't we? It would save on a lot of useless diplomacy.