Embassy to CDZ Land

[CharlemagneXLII]

I highly doubt CDZ will give us four cities on the peninsula unless we have a settler in the retaliation spot ready to go. We need to decide exactly how we plan to sort this out. (I thought that trading Pulsar was the plan.). I think there are three options:

1: Trade Pulsar Plateau for ereh rO. That gives each country 3 cities on the peninsula, and is what the message was written for.
2: Use the next settler to go to the retaliation spot (after building PP). Then offer to trade the settler for ereH rO. This would involve not communicating with CDZ until that settler gets there, as we don't want to alert them to our plan. EDIT: A better plan here would be to offer them a settler after building PP, and if they don't take it to move it to the retaliation location and offer it again, and build the city if that fails.
3: Build and keep Pulsar Plateau, but move on to build Singularity next. We would change the content of the message, but still send it to deal with the issue of borders. CDZ might agree to trade for a settler.

After looking over things further, I like the city spot of Pulsar Plateau and agree we should keep it. I like option 3, we can just send them a message informing them that the location of ereh rO annoys us, and we don't want them to build on our coast again. We can also agree not to build south of the lake again, hash out some boundaries, and maybe agree to trade away a settler. If they respond negatively to our message we can always retaliate- it is a more flexible plan.

 

[cav scout]

I like option 2 with the edit the best.

 

[Earthling]

The way you've put it probably clears up some confusion. So I'm thinking:

1) I always wanted to keep Pulsar, when we were discussing plans before probably I had assumed that was a consensus. So I'm not really for going to this option. Also trading Pulsar for Cosmos specifically still results in the same culture pressure and all - any deal we work out I'm thinking we want both of those cities in the end.

2) A pretty straightforward plan really. I think this has the best possible outcome if things go right with CDZ - if they agree to a deal, they get a settler/Retaliation spot, and we get Cosmos back. If they don't agree to any deals at all, then we just have a city in a Retaliation spot, not the end of the world either. This is probably the least honest/open diplomatically but I'm ok with that, it's really part of the game and it's not like our alliance has been really strong/everyone has been in excellent communication this whole time. I doubt they will want any real hostilities yet either, the ETTT is too important/valuable.

3) It is more fair in some ways and more flexible, but I'm willing to risk things for plan 2 as you put it. The one thing that could convince me is if we see some major developments on the Indian front, because if we're going to need to focus on that peninsula more maybe just settling Singularity and heading over there is better for economy/long-term. I don't think that would be my conclusion right now yet though, and also I don't think we're quite in place with all our other units/cities to go harass India yet. So if we have a Retaliation settler we can probably settle Singularity fine and then just a little delay before Indian side.

So just to be clear - I'd go with 2, it should be manageable, and if turns go by quickly enough we won't have too much time to fret over diplomacy - ie. give CDZ the heads up before the Retaliation city, which means they need to consider their response. Really due to how slow diplo has been even if we went with option 3 it might take a while to hear back in which case we may miss a window for the Retaliation city or something.

 

[galdarian]

I still favour culture bombing Pulsar Plateau so 1 is not an option for me so 2 would be my preferred option. Having said that I don't really like the retaliation spot based on the fact that it's not a great city site and we will be stuck with it draining our economy.

I'm predicting that they don't go for it.

 

[Earthling]

I'm also kinda predicting they don't go for it in the end, unfortunately. So I'm still trying to balance what options would give us the best position if they don't go for it, versus the chance of working something out - and I think my final answer is still option 2 as well. I'd definitely try to help get a message finalized later today or sometime soon, but as always looking for any other Q's thoughts.

The one southern retaliation spot I still would like to stress isn't that bad - not as good as other spots like Singularity right away obviously, but just for recognition. We get a clams, and share banana with Resonance, and have grasslands and grassland hill. Again, I want to stress how the clams work out - it will be in the first ring of our city, so as soon as we have one border pop, we effectively apply that additional 10 per turn. So we're pretty much guaranteed to take the clams by culture after a short while. It is a dangerous game being played there, versus just settling somewhere easy like our homeland, but I still think retaliation has to be a reasonable response.

 

[cav scout]

If we don't like settling on their coast across from Resonance we could settle North of "ereh rO" (their Cosmos) to box it in and get the spices. Or settle above "Or Here" on their coast.

EDIT: I meant incense not spices.

 

[CharlemagneXLII]

I like this option now that it is unlikely we'll be going to the Maverick peninsula (we'll need military to do that) with the settler built next. (It can finally build Singularity.) I like the spot across from Resonance- it isn't a bad spot and it really screws up Spamville. We should send them a message when we are 1-2 turns away from building, so that's plenty of time to draft one up.

 

[Earthling]

It's strongly looking like the Maverick peninsula is going to be a long battle now, I agree with that too. So if we're going to get a settler for Singularity anyway, this next one definitely looks like it could work somewhere on the CDZ side.

North of Cosmos would actually be ok by me too, probably a little more diplomatic with CDZ too. I'd be happy for an informal poll/vote on such an idea, I'm not dead set on having to go by the Spamville site (I do think it is at least a viable option though).

 

[cav scout]

Well heck, lets found a city north of ereh rO and then another one North of Spamville right after. That should give us enough cities on the CDZ peninsula.

If we are lucky CDZ will then see that ereh rO and Spamville are both surrounded, chokeable and possibly flippable. So trading cities with us then looks more appealing (especially if we sweeten the pot with gold, permanent gift of bananas etc.).

If we are really lucky CDZ will see the benefit of trading ereh rO for the 2nd settler before he founds North of Spamville.

EDIT: Question- does the free monument stay in a city if we gift it? If so this would be worth something to CDZ.

 

[RegentMan]

EDIT: Question- does the free monument stay in a city if we gift it?

I don't recall for sure, but I don't think so.

 

[CharlemagneXLII]

Here is a revamped message:

Greetings to our friends and allies CDZ from the Continuum.

We noted with regret that the most recent city you founded, ereh rO, is built on the coast facing us on the peninsula that separates us. Quatronia takes the position that such a city lies in our "sphere of influence", lying as it does on our coast.

We recognize, however, that we did not communicate that to you previously, and that our teams have not even discussed the issue of settling on the peninsula, let alone deciding on spheres of influence. To that end, we would like to come to an agreement regarding the division of the peninsula to avoid a costly settling competition.

We currently have a settler on the peninsula heading east to your coast just north of Spamville. The city it will found will have your clams inside its borders, and will obviously put more cultural pressure on Spamville. While we do not begrudge you the city of Spamville, we will not tolerate the aggressive settling policy undertaken by CDZ in building ereh rO.

We would like to offer you a deal to settle this issue. We will gift you the settler near Spamville in exchange for ereh rO. Also, to lay out future boundaries, we propose the following:

1. CDZ and Quatronia agree not to further settle south of the freshwater lake on the peninsula.
2. CDZ and Quatronia agree not to settle on the mainland coast adjacent to the other's homeland.
3. CDZ and Quatronia agree to return any city on the peninsula flipped by culture.

Please reply soon.
Sincerely,
Ambassador Earthling.

Just a few points:
1) We might want to elaborate more on why we consider ereh rO to be ours. While it may seem obvious to us, it isn't to them, and I couldn't think of any other reasons.
2) I tried not to sound too aggressive, but we are pulling off a fairly aggressive move, so I put the blame on them by condemning their "aggressive policy".
3) The small agreement is to make sure they don't pull any stunts with the settler they give us, and to finalize the issue. (The city flipping point might help get them aboard and could diffuse any future conflicts.)

 

[Earthling]

I like this message quite a lot, I'll keep checking in and see if we could have revisions and agreement on if it's what we want to do tomorrow.

I might say a couple of things a little differently, but the overall content sounds really good, and I personally would be happy to send a message before finalizing another city-founding right now - if this deal actually goes through it probably is the best overall deal that could happen for both sides. Namely on a few revisions, the first one is making more clear we are not acting entirely out of spite:

We currently have a settler on the peninsula heading east to your coast just north of Spamville. The city it will found would overlap nicely with our city Resonance but would also have some of your current tiles inside its borders, and will obviously put more cultural pressure on Spamville.

And then after:

We will gift you the settler near Spamville in exchange for ereh rO

I might add something like:

If there is other minor compensation or ideas you would like to suggest that would further facilitate this specific exchange, we're open to hearing so.

(then it continues)
Also to lay out future boundaries...

 

[galdarian]

To clarify I don't think that the city of ereh rO is ours, I think that the land it sits on is sacred to the Quatronian people who are indigenous to that region. They have requested that we ensure it's returned to be part of our cultural lands.

 

[CharlemagneXLII]

Earthling, I think you should go ahead and send it with the revisions you've proposed. We need to give them time to come up with a response. The only thing is that I intentionally did not suggest that they give us a counter offer, as that would hint at weakness. I want to put them on the spot a little and force their hand into this deal by holding the threat of anti-Spamville over their heads. I think that if they have a counter offer they'll send it anyways.

 

[Earthling]

I see your point exactly, don't want to go too far on that. I'm happy to send the message soon though - if no other major objections. Perhaps this revision (of that whole section) makes things a little better:

We would like to offer you a deal to settle this issue. We will gift you the settler near Spamville in exchange for ereh rO; thus, the settler would just be yours and can go wherever else you would like. If there are other ideas you would like to suggest that would further facilitate this specific exchange, the settler for ereh rO, we're open to hearing so. Also, to lay out future boundaries, we propose the following:

 

[Earthling]

I sent the message, I think we mostly were in agreement on major points and that it's on a tighter timeframe, and nobody spoke up since last night.

 

[CharlemagneXLII]

We should probably send a PM to ensure that they've got the message and will respond soon, since our settler will be ready shortly.

 

[Earthling]

Yeah, that's a good idea. Where are we on the timer (I think settling falls under the moving units rule and we can't do that after our allotted slot in the war is over)

 

[cav scout]

We can beat CDZ to music I think.

Our GNP is higher and we have plenty of gold saved up while they only have 5 in reserve. We can tech Literature in 2 turns or Drama in 3 and then go straight into Music. I'm guessing CDZ is teching Literature right now but we can go Drama and still beat them.

I think we should declare our intentions to get Music before CDZ does. We could say we are going Drama followed by Music. Teams will either let us have the Great Artist without a fuss or they will complain. If they do complain then we can go with the bulb idea and everyone will think we are being nice and conciliatory.

 

[galdarian]

I like it! To the victor go the spoils.
Of course it's possible that they're just researching Literature to unlock HE / NE and won't go on to music...

Either way we should deny them the GA and take it ourselves.