Emperor Level Challenge: Mansa Musa

[Jet]

Is anyone out there who uses wide screen that knows how to post good looking screen shots without having to scroll?

I play in windowed mode and take screen shots with Alt-PrintScreen, then paste them into Paint.NET. Paint.NET is free and almost as easy as MS Paint, but has more features (in particular, high-quality resizing.)

 

[Cabledawg]

CS slingshot could be done with this start. After bronze, head to writing through priesthood, build a library in capitol....dont whip it...chop it. As a matter a fact, dont whip the capitol if it takes anyone off your gold mines. Get out a settler while researching math and col.....time the Oracle to finish after COL and youve got Civil Service.

I am dissapointed to see those roads allready. At size 5 and by turn 43, you should be working all 3 gold mines. I also dont see the point of Archery. I dont think Ive ever researched it. There has allways been horses, copper, or iron near me somewhere. Growing to size 5 before the settler was the right thing to do....on most starts, I will get out a settler at size 2 or 3....but working those golds was the priority...you just got distracted by those pretty roads.

 

[futurehermit]

Road to the gold gives +1 Maybe the worker had nothing to do so connected the corn?

 

[vicawoo]

Nothing to do, when there are 2 un-mined golds?

So I guess my point about axe rushes is that they're never free. There's always a trade off. Will you be in a much stronger position tech-wise than everyone else? Undoubtedly. Will you be able to expand to 5-6 decent cities on your own? If you do it correctly. So why not attack when you're relatively stronger?

I don't think the capital should be making axes at all when it could be making a granary, library, more settlers, or maybe even oracle. If other cities can make axes in between settlers, then maybe (1 should be trying for a GS).

 

[steve7811]

Some quick responses:

@ Polycrates: Disrupting Zara with skirmishers sounds very interesting. I reckon he's already got 2 cities up at least and aiming for 3rd if it is not already set up. Though if I want to do this, I can't realistically expect to capture his cities. It would most likely have to be some sort of economic war to disrupt his expansion and to pillage all his improvements while preventing his workers to make replacement improvements. But would this better than simply going for an all-out ax rush?

@futurehermit: Given the current state with only one city that has barracks online without copper hooked up, this means that I have to get a copper city and hook it up ASAP. To start ax rush means I need to focus my production on building axemen as soon as copper is hooked up, but I am very weary of the Babylonians down below who will most likely start to build his cities up towards Timbuktu up the river. But then again, if I had to choose between Hammurabi and Zara as to which to eliminate first, it would have to be Zara first.

@vicawoo: Because I was trying to let Timbuktu grow, I didn't get to build additional settler or an additional worker after the first one. I could have mined all the gold mines and just work on the improvements without having to worry about roads. I guess it is a habit of mine. You are right, it would have been much more beneficial to do so. But rest assured, I will make sure to mine all those gold mines ASAP.

@Cabledawg: With a CS slingshot, Timbuktu will be a monster. It would be interesting indeed. But then I only see one choice: Verical growth as in CS slingshot or Horizontal growth via expansion and conquest. That is a decision I need to make. But first, 2nd city has to come online ASAP.

@Jet: Thank you for that suggestion. I will try it out to see if I can make everyone's eyes more comfortable while viewing my screen shots.
​

 

[steve7811]

I managed to play a few more turns before I had to skip over to work for the rest of the day. I researched mysticism and pottery, and now on my way to writing. Apparently Hammurabi founds Judaism and converts to it immediately, while switching his civics to organized religion. That probably means he went through 2 different anarchy periods?

The copper site next to me is yet to be settled. I will go ahead and rush my newly built settler (which was not chopped or whipped) to settle there ASAP. I put worker on build queue in Timbuktu though I am thinking about cranking out another settler or another skirmisher.

Oh.. and I got the gold mines all mined and about to hook them all up to the capital.

Here are some shots, followed by the save.

City of Timbuktu:

Spoiler :

The Vicinity of Timbuktu:

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Hammurabi Area:

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The south east region:

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And the explored area as a whole:

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And finally the save for 1960 BC.

 

[xanadux]

My recommendation would be to get 3 settlers out ASAP. Settle the copper/corn/gem site, and then the corn/cow/ivory site to the SW. After that, either a flood plain city, or the corn/cow/ivory/wine city. With the gold mines, teching will be fast, and I see no reason to go to war before having macemen and trebs. First priority is CS for a huge Bureaucracy boost. I see the second city as an early production city with 3 hills and the copper. The third city, either one of the corn/cow/ivory sites or a flood plain site needs to get a library built quickly to run scientists so you can build an academy in the capital. I would prioritize expanding to 4 or 5 cities rather than an axe rush. Mace rushes are so much better if you have the time.

After Writing, tech poly, priesthood, CoL, CS.

 

[Polycrates]

@ Polycrates: Disrupting Zara with skirmishers sounds very interesting. I reckon he's already got 2 cities up at least and aiming for 3rd if it is not already set up. Though if I want to do this, I can't realistically expect to capture his cities. It would most likely have to be some sort of economic war to disrupt his expansion and to pillage all his improvements while preventing his workers to make replacement improvements. But would this better than simply going for an all-out ax rush?

Maybe. But it's much cheaper and you can do it much earlier. Early-game disruption can be very effective, and skirmishers are perfect for it. You only need a few; just send them out, let them pillage everything, stop the workers from working any more, keep them the hell away from mining copper and stop them from getting settlers out. You just stay at war with them and let them stagnate with unworked tiles, building pointless hordes of archers. Meanwhile, you expand peacefully into the land they would have claimed, and then finish them off with swords later.

I'd probably be doing it with Hammurabi as well, just because his bowmen are such a pain to melee dudes if you let him build up. And because I'm a bastard like that.

 

[KMadCandy]

Moving from a plains hill with fresh water is usually bad as well.

well, the fresh water was from the lake, not the river (no commerce on the hill), so i don't think we'd have been able to build a levee if that's what you're referring to. we kept the fresh water from the lake.

@Jet: Thank you for that suggestion. I will try it out to see if I can make everyone's eyes more comfortable while viewing my screen shots.

thank you steve, and thank you jet! the shots look great to me now

 

[shyuhe]

I'd settler/worker spam with Timbuktu and build skirmishers in the other cities. I'd grab the copper first, then the SW ivory. Then SE wine. I would try to expand as fast as possible as Zara REX's pretty fast.

 

[Cabledawg]

This doesnt reveal anything of the map that you didnt know. I wanted to show you that a CS sling is possible. Its turn 74 and I have 3 cities, a library in the capitol, 2 workers, 3 axemen, a barracks in Djenne, and some warriors fogbusting. The reason monuments werent whipped in my other 2 cities was because i wanted to see where Confucianism landed.



Ive also made a road to the gems so when IW comes in, I can mine them quicker. With the CS slingshot being nerfed, I rarely go for it, but with 3 golds.....it screams for it

 

[steve7811]

Okay... CS slingshot or economic war against Zara... would it be possible to do both? I am thinking hard on this, but don't have access to the game yet as I haven't gotten off work yet.

Kmad... finally I got those pictures to look good... thank god.

Cabledawg... which save file did you use? The lastest one at 1960 BC? If so, I just might try that. Btw, how are Zara and Hammurabi doing? I see that Zara's got the GW up already.

 

[Cabledawg]

I seriously doubt that you can do it from your last save. I started from your initial 4000BC save.

 

[futurehermit]

I still vote for an axerush against Zara who becomes a monster later in the game but is rather soft early on. If this situation doesn't call for an axerush, I'm not sure what does. Part of the difficulty in an axerush is having copper + a close neighbour. Another part of the difficulty is being able to afford it. You have all of those covered here.

Plus, don't forget that an axerush doesn't just benefit you, it hurts your opponent and gives you valuable extra land that you can use to your benefit.

EDIT: P.S., I wouldn't worry about Hammurabi too much. Just keep decent relations with him and he is unlikely to attack. If he builds close to you, so what? Starting from the medieval era his power wanes and you can easily take him out then since you will have all of yours plus Zara's land under your belt.

 

[vicawoo]

Actually the fresh water is more for the +2 health, which is a big deal for the capital.

 

[KMadCandy]

Actually the fresh water is more for the +2 health, which is a big deal for the capital.

yeah so we're okay, since we kept that . i definitely think of it as a big deal for the capital!

 

[steve7811]

Ah... great that screen shots are working out nice now.

And to clarify the fresh water situation at the capital, I believe that it is indeed gained from the lake and not the river.

Anyhow, I took bits and bits of advices from everyone and decided to build a copper city and harass Zara with my skirmishers to stop his expansion. Let's see how this goes.

1960 BC: I start by moving the 2 skirmishers north of Zara towards his land. Meanwhile, the settler moves to 1NE of the copper. Yeah, I don't like the jungles and I don't have iron working, but looking at long-term growth, that location is prime with gems, corn and dye.

1880 BC: Skirmisher done in Timbuktu. I will build one more.

1840 BC: Writing is finished. Onward to Iron working to chop jungles. Also.... I declare war on Zara and move my skirmishers into his territory. And Djenne is founded 1 NE of the copper.

1720 BC: While pillaging Zara's land, Judaism is spread to Timbuktu. Hmmm... convert or not to convert? I decide to wait on this since I don't have any happiness issue at the moment. Had it been spread to Djenne I might have given it some more thought.

1640 BC: OMG... what is this? A settler escort right next to my skirmisher? What are my odds? 82.8% success ratio! I am in luck!

Spoiler :

And I win and get a free worker!

Spoiler :

1600 BC: Timbuktu builds worker. Djenne is undefended so I put another skirmisher on queue for 2 turns.

1560 BC: Great Wall is built in a far away land. Iron working done. Debating on alphabet, aesthetics, mathematics, or mediation for priesthood for the CoL path.... then I realize I would be better off having Timbuktu pump out settlers and workers and skirmishers than to worry about oracle at this point without marble or being industrial. So I choose alphabet first.

1520 BC: Skirmisher done for the defense of Djenne. I will build one more for defense of my 3rd city.

1480 BC: Stonehenge is built in a far away land. And here is the screen shot of Zara's land. He has only 2 cities. To my amazement he had road hooked up to the copper square but did not even have it mined yet! Instead, he had a cottage on there! He does not have any axemen and he will not get the pleasure of building one ever. This is gonna be interesting.

Spoiler :

1440 BC: Djenne finishes building the monument and I have 2 workers working hard on the copper tile to have it connected and be mined. The stolen worker is also nearby, clearing out a jungle. Meanwhile, Timbuktu builds the skirmisher for the defense of the 3rd city as the capital builds another settler.

1360 BC: Copper is finally online!

1240 BC: There is something I forgot to mention. An iron popped up when I discovered iron working back in 1560 BC. Forgot to post screen shot there. Basically it is in the northwest corner in a secluded location. I don't know if I should consider building city nearby but the location doesn't help me achieving any possible AI expansion block.

Spoiler :

Also... Zara seemed to whip out a settler and 2 barbarian archers are on a hill 1SE of his capital. Thank god I got on top of the road tile 1W of that city because otherwise he would have been able to have an archer escort the settler out with 2 quick tile movements. This will be interesting... I prey the barbarians win... heh... yeah right.

Spoiler :

1120 BC: Timbuktu done with settler. Skirmisher again to guard capital since it is still being guarded by a warrior.

1080 BC: Alphabet is done and researching mathematics next.

1040 BC: Djenne gets its border expansion. I am ready to have the gems mined and the corn farmed. It will be great. In the meantime, Timbuktu finishes a skirmisher and I set out for axeman. Also Hammurabi builds the Oracle.

1000 BC: Djenne finishes granary and goes for barracks.

950 BC: Timbuktu builds the first axemen. More to come. Also, Kumbi Saleh is founded 1S-1SE of the gold mine, by the banks of the flood plain river and 1E of the plains hill. The new city starts on monument and is guarded by a skirmisher.

925 BC: Gem mine is mined and hooked up! Also corn is farmed and just needs to be hooked up now.

900 BC: Barbarian axemen happen to be wondering around Timbuktu. I used my axemen to attack, but it dies. My skirmisher finishes him off though.

875 BC: HC adopts Organized Religion. Axemen done in Timbuktu. More to come since I already lost one to a stupid barbarian.

850 BC: Tornado strikes Ethiopia. Like they needed another disaster. He’s got all his workers and his lone settler hiding behind his cities. All his improvements are destroyed and I have a few skirmishers fortified by his cities. He’s been spamming nothing but archers.

825 BC: Mathematics done. More chop power if I want to utilize it. I decide to persue currency because I don’t have poly or meditation, so this is the only route to head to CoL.

As for our tech situation with the convenience of the Alphabet…

Spoiler :

Looks like Hammurabi used his Oracle to get Metal Casting. At this point, I am not sure if I should do some trading, though the techs that the AIs are willing to trade with me are of no immediate use to me, so I hold off.

Also, I decide to whip out the barracks in Djenne since it takes another 13 turns for it and I have +2 happy faces from gold and gems so I can afford a -1 penalty for 10 turns.

750 BC: Kumbi Saleh whips out a monument and starts on granary.

675 BC: 2 more axemen built out of capital and Djenne. More to come. Timbuktu is almost about to grow again. I need to think about putting up a farm perhaps. It is yet to have a granary.

625 BC: Looks like I found a perfect site for my next city. It will also serve the purpose of blocking Hammurabi’s expansion to the east. The site is 1E of where the warrior is standing. Silk, marble, and sheep with river nearby though I don’t like the tundras. No matter. By the way, what is Hammurabi doing these days? He is not expanding and he is relatively very quiet, with only a scout running around. Maybe he is building me some wonders for me to capture later?

Spoiler :

600 BC: HC contacts me and offers open borders. Heck, I will do it for now to gain some positive relations. He is far away and is of no threat yet.

Spoiler :

Meanwhile, Timbuktu just grew to size 6 and builds another axemen. 3 turns to build these guys. Awesome. I think I need more. Zara has horde of archers.

575 BC: Haha… slave revolt in Babylon. J

550 BC: Pyramids built in a far away land and Zara converts to Hinduism.

525 BC: Timbuktu done with axemen again. Time to build a library since I will get currency soon and I am aiming for CoL.

500 BC: Did I tell you I never get any luck with random events? Well this one again… I always get things like this. Vermin going after my food or some fire destroying the forests or the bandits destroying roads … things like this. But hey this isn’t that bad. I have a granary here and I am close to happy cap.

Spoiler :

Meanwhile, Zara decides to be tough and attacks my axemen after I pick off some archers wondering around outside their city. I killed 2 but eventually lose 1.

Oh and the Great Lighthouse is built in a far away land. Could this be… Hammurabi or HC? Meantime, Currency is done so I persue CoL.

450 BC: I end up capturing and razing Axum. 4 warriors appeared as partisan force after the city’s destruction but I killed 3 of them with nearby skirmishers easily. Meanwhile, Hammurabi decides he wants to open his borders. I agree.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

425 BC: Hinduism is spread to Djenne and Kumbi Saleh. I am not making any religious commitments yet. Meanwhile, Djenne finishes last of the axemen and now building settlers to get the 4th city settled.

Spoiler :

Haha. Great General is built. Oh my!

Spoiler :

400 BC: Hinduist Shrine is built somewhere.

375 BC: Hammurabi adopts HR. Buddhist shrine is built somewhere.

350 BC: Timbuktu finally builds a library. Market next.

325 BC: Hinduism spreads to Timbuktu. Someone founds Confuscianism.

250 BC: After heavy casualties, I finally end up capturing Gondar. Zara built walls up there and it was guarded by 4 archers which made it extra tough. I decided to keep it since I figured out another good spot for my 6th city soon.

Spoiler :

Current maps at 250 BC so far.

The North

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The West

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The East

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The Known World

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I elected to stop here. I am posting at work so I don't have the save file with me currently but I will post it up as soon as I get a chance.

For the next round:

Timbuktu is building market and the other 2 cities I built are working on library. I am 1 turn away from getting CoL. I am thinking about aesthetics and then straight to Litereature for GL.

My neighbors are quite strong while I was busy fighting Zara. Hammurabi isn't too big but I am worried about HC. I definitely know that he is north of the jungle and he has all that space up there all by himself. No idea how big the land north of the jungle is, but he's been peacefully expanding.

With HC being industrious and Hammurabi building wonders, I am thinking that I should get my economy settled down and take out Hammurabi after giving him some time to build more wonders if he is working on them. But first, I have to make sure that I do some necessary tech trading, because from my last game I have learned that the AIs don't like to trade with you if you are the only civilization that they know.

I do have a settler handy in Kumbi Saleh and I am thinking of settling down straight south of Kumbi Saleh, to try to grab at least one of the 2 silk, the marble, the iron, and the sheep. I can't realistically hope for the deer in the FC for the next city, but hopefully close enough that the next couple of border expansion can get that deer into my culture.

I have played the game a bit sloppy so I know I could have done a lot better. Especially given that Cabledawg was able to achieve CS slingshot with a good start that I got, I know that I could have been much better off. But this is a learning experience for me. I know I will learn quite a lot from this experience.

More to come later. Thanks for reading.

 

[steve7811]

Here we go. Round 3.

225 BC: Code of Laws is researched. I switch immediately to Caste System for now. Aesthetics is chosen as my next tech choice. HC adopts HR.

175 BC: Temple of Artemis and Temple of Solomon are built in a far away land.

150 BC: I build my 4th city, Gao, on the previously designated spot. Meanwhile… another bandit activity near Timbuktu and asking for 10 gold to save the corn tile. How many times have this kind of events taken place against me in this game alone? Jeez!




125 BC: Hammurabi demands that I cancel my deals with HC on open borders. I refuse. I don’t like him and he will be the first to go before I do anything against HC. He better learn some respect.

100 BC: Oh my… what is HC thinking? He offers me a tech trade… poly and some gold for alphabet. To that, I would say no thanks.




But, before I finish conversation with him, I check to see my other tech trade options. Needless to say, he offers me this trade now.




I take the offer and backfill some of the techs I missed.

50 BC: Timbuktu builds the market and now I am breaking even at 60% so I figure I can build one or two more cities. I start on settlers. Meantime, Kumbi Saleh finishes with the library so I put the courthouse on queue.

25 BC: Hammurabi comes asking to trade his crab for my corn. Fine enough. I will agree to it.




I also wanted to see what techs he wants from me to trade some of his, so I get him to the tech negotiation table.




Apparently on this very turn, I finished researching for Aesthetics. He apparently won’t take Alphabet from me for his 3 cheap techs, but he will take Aesthetics. Hmmm… Is this normal? Anyway, I take his offer and backfills some more.

50 AD: HC contacts me and this time, he wants Aesthetics from me. In a nice tone of voice, at least not threateningly. Since I want to be in good relations with him, I give in. I only care about the GL at this point and I am 1 turn away from Litereature. So I agree and lend him a hand.




OMG.. some nerve he’s got. After he pleas for my tech, I go back to the negotiation table with him. Apparently he does not want to trade the techs he has with me, because he fears that I am becoming too advanced?? Oh my.. that is annoying. I will definitely remember this.




100 AD: I decided to stop here because I am committed to watching this movie with my wife. Anyway, I have these 3 general areas that I am interested in putting down cities. I have a real lack of coastal cities at the moment, as the only one I have is the captured Ethiopian city of Gondar and it isn’t so hot. Not until I build the Moai Statue in there anyway. I need your help on this as to which tile would best suit me, with the lack of coastal cities into consideration.


1st Possible Site: West of Timbuktu. Trying to grab corn, cow, iron and be coastal at the same time is impossible so I have to pick and choose. Iron I will have it hooked up at Gao, the latest city I built, so it might not be as necessary here. I am just a bit concerned with the production situation than anything else in this site. Not to mention Hammurabi is right in the neighborhood.



This is the jungle area. HC has managed to expand into the jungle and absorb the banana into his culture. To his east, there are 3 dyes, rice, copper, and a clam that is a bit off the desired location. Trying to get the clam would probably not work out well, so I will most likely have to settle with the other resources in mind. I am thinking about building a city right in between the copper and the rice. That site will also be coastal, but without the benefit of the clam.



Finally, the southeast. This area is full of barbarian activity and even a barbarian swordsman had popped up here once or twice. I am trying to send some units down here to fogbust at the moment, as the priority in settling down in this area is not as high as the other 2 areas mentioned above. Still, the land is quite rich excluding the tundras down below.



Oh and I apologize for the lack of save file for the 250 BC one. I accidentally wrote over the save and lost it when I started a new session on Deity level to kinda goof around a bit. Auto save got automatically overwritten as well, so I only have the 100 AD save file available. I apologize for that.

As for the next round:

I am thinking about picking sides now and convert to either Judaism or Hinduism. I am trading with both Hammurabi and HC, but if I have to choose someone to eliminate first, it would have to be Hammurabi. I also adopted Caste System, not because I immediately needed it, but I ran into 3 different slave revolt events already in Timbuktu and got so tired of it.

Timbuktu is building Great Library and I have a settler chopping wood for it. I have mathematics so the extra hammer bonus would be helpful. I am right now researching Metal Casting so I can build one or two mints and take advantage of Musa’s UB. None of the AIs want to trade that with me anyway.

Oh here are the quick rundown of the situation at hand.












If you noticed, Hammurabi managed to build 4 wonders for me to capture. J HC also has at least 2 wonders. I am not doing too bad, though I’ve lost a little edge on the power graph.

Off to see this movie my wife is raving about and then maybe I might get a chance to play some more later tonight.

 

[steve7811]

Oh and the save file for 100 AD is included here.

 

[Cabledawg]

On the east coast. instead of a city between the copper and rice, settle 1E of the rice. On the west coast, if you look at where the corn is and where to settle, the best spot is prolly right on the corn. If you try to go further south, youll bump uglies with Hams culture. By settling on the corn, you get the extra food in the city capitol and extra food from the cows. Youll gain an extra food from a lighthouse and working the lake. Being able to work the iron will really help for production.

The area in the middle of the map has an Ironworks in there somewhere....look around...youll see it.