Empire of the Sea (Vikings/Norse development thread)

royal62184 said:
Some people keep saying this week and some people are saying months to a year. Is it the modding tools that are coming out soon but the source code/SDK coming out later this year?
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The modding tools are coming out now, the source code will be awhile (after they get a stable base). I'm going to get out of the habit of calling the source code an SDK, since SDK is a software development kit and I believe they're calling the mod tools that this time.
 
Ok, an idea for the Vikings / Norse civilization:

Special units:

Longboat - Replaces trirreme. It has one extra movement (exploring advantages!), triples the amount of gold generated by pillaging workboats (a small touch of flavour) and most important of all, adjacent land units / cities gain +2 strenght (that is, it acts as a support unit for both amphibious assaults and city sieges!).

Berserker - Replaces swordman. Pillaging heals them compeltely even on enemy territory (the more there is to pillage, the longer they can substain their invasion). When embarked it can attack coasts as if it were unembarked (no amphibious assault penalty), they defend when embarked (a la Shongai), thus making your fat, rich overseas neighbours unsafe, mwahahaha.

Special ability:

Hanseatic leage

Maritime city states influence degrades at 1/3 of the speed.

City states rewards you with naval units as well as their usual bonus.

Friendly city states generates trade routes with your cities as if they were a part of your own empire.

Because Norse civilizations weren't all about raping and pillaging ;) and because that would encourage to play as them: use brute force early in the game to secure your sphere of influence, fund remote colonies and find allies earlier than anyone, then work hard to create a economic union able to fuel your economy and leverage your early advantage.
 
I'd like to see this in the game, but I must detest that it be called the Viking Civilization.
I would much prefer a term such as The Scandinavian Civilization, The Kalmar Union, The Norse Civilization, or simply going with a single Scandinavian country, with The Swedish Civilization being an obvious choice, since it is the larger of the Scandinavian countries.
 
Could I suggest perhaps adding the city of Vedrarfjiordr instead of, or aswell as Longphort (Dublin)?
Translated as possibly either 'Fjord of the Ram' or 'windy fjord' it is modern day Waterford City in the South-east of Ireland.

The reason I ask is that Vedrarfjiordr was where the Vikings established their first city in Ireland and declared it the capital as they made their was inland on their second invasion in 914. It was strategically their most important settlement on the island as it was used to control access to three navigable rivers which together provided access to the heartlands of the south, west and east of Ireland.

Along with this there is evidence to show that Vedrarfjiordr was of key economic significance for the Vikings. It was the main trading area out of Ireland to the rest of Europe for them, and was a bustling trade port. And also in the 10th century there is a lot of evidence to show it as a very political city, which was also involved in the affairs of Britain and northwestern France.

Sorry if that was a little long but I would quite like to see added as it was a very important area for the Vikings during their campaign in Britain and Ireland.

Best of luck with the mod! :)
 
@redmond_jd
I will not delete Dublin, but what about adding vedrafjord on the list before it?

@Ikael
These decisions are all made. Berserker will be a longswordsman with increased strenght and longboat will be a trireme with extra movement and bonus against other triremes. The UA is Odin's Call and consists of free amphibious promotion and no loss of movement from crossing river and embarking/disembarking.
 
veBear said:
@redmond_jd
I will not delete Dublin, but what about adding vedrafjord on the list before it?

@Ikael
These decisions are all made. Berserker will be a longswordsman with increased strenght and longboat will be a trireme with extra movement and bonus against other triremes. The UA is Odin's Call and consists of free amphibious promotion and no loss of movement from crossing river and embarking/disembarking.
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Odin's Call? I think that something more related to the UA would be a more appropriate name. You have things like "Father Governs Children" and "Ancien Regime", which sort of describe their abilities. Second, not all Norse worshiped the Aesir. I actually think that Kaupang UB is good, and a UA of Berserkergang that gives combat bonus would be more balanced. As they are now, they barely have any bonus to exploration, and none to economy.
 
Personally, I'd prefer to see the longboat have the same stats as a trireme, but the ability to enter ocean hexes. That'd do more for making the Vikings an exploration-based faction.
 
I don't think Ancien Regime necessarily describes the ability, but you do have a point. It's why I suggested just calling it Viking Raiders (to get the Viking name in the game).

BTW, Longboats did not have the range to travel straight from Scandinavia to Vinland. When they reached America, they had to travel via Iceland and Greenland. At the time, there was a mini-ice age, so there were more stopping places along the way too. In Civ terms, it would probably be analogous to following coastal tiles. I was going to suggest giving it 6 moves and a slight strength bonus. They'd be great for exploring nearby islands and the coasts of your continent in a short time, but can't go into sea.
 
Louis XXIV said:
I don't think Ancien Regime necessarily describes the ability, but you do have a point. It's why I suggested just calling it Viking Raiders (to get the Viking name in the game).

BTW, Longboats did not have the range to travel straight from Scandinavia to Vinland. When they reached America, they had to travel via Iceland and Greenland. At the time, there was a mini-ice age, so there were more stopping places along the way too. In Civ terms, it would probably be analogous to following coastal tiles. I was going to suggest giving it 6 moves and a slight strength bonus. They'd be great for exploring nearby islands and the coasts of your continent in a short time, but can't go into sea.
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Well, Ancien Regime was the aristocracy of France, and their patronage led to flourishing French culture back in the day. And during the golden years for the Norse, it was actually the Medieval Warm Period. In fact, it was the Little Ice Age that was a primary factor in them biting the big one. That is why they abandoned Greenland. But yeah, exploration should be a pretty big factor for them I think.

As to your Viking Raiders, that is a good idea. If they are called the Norse, and the ability is combat related, it is only natural for it to have the word Viking in it. Berserkergang seems a little too specific anyway.
 
NiRv4n4 said:
As to your Viking Raiders, that is a good idea. If they are called the Norse, and the ability is combat related, it is only natural for it to have the word Viking in it. Berserkergang seems a little too specific anyway.
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I agree that it should be called Viking Raiders or at least something with Viking in it. I really don't think it should be Odin's Call. It's not like it's an ability from D&D or anything :p
 
Louis XXIV said:
I don't think Ancien Regime necessarily describes the ability, but you do have a point. It's why I suggested just calling it Viking Raiders (to get the Viking name in the game).
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'Viking Raiders' would fit the ability better, but I'm sure the viking raiders had all kinds of badass nicknames which would be better for flavor IMO. I tried googling 'viking raider nicknames' but that inevitably lead to NFL sites. :lol:

I know that the OP's made the decision and all, but I just realized that an alternative UA based around Viking funerals & the desire to die in battle would be pretty cool too. Something like:

Call of Valhalla - Gain significant amounts of culture for every unit lost in battle

Kind of a counterpart to the Aztec ability. Probably wouldn't be very popular, but it'd certainly be cool.
 
Nirvana, kaupang UB is still out, and if you actually want to know, most scandinavians were christian through the most of the viking age. Still I liked the name, while Viking Raiders... Could be an reserve option. If you dont like the name, then Njord's Call could be an option, since njord were the æsir god of the sea.
 
Vordeo, you posted same time as me, I will think over it.
 
Vordeo said:
Call of Valhalla - Gain significant amounts of culture for every unit lost in battle

Kind of a counterpart to the Aztec ability. Probably wouldn't be very popular, but it'd certainly be cool.
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That's an extremely counter intuitive ability, however. Most people try to limit their losses. Considering how long everything takes to produce, using this for cultural victory would be a suicide mission.
 
Louis XXIV said:
That's an extremely counter intuitive ability, however. Most people try to limit their losses. Considering how long everything takes to produce, using this for cultural victory would be a suicide mission.
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Oh yeah, I agree, but flavor wise I rather like the idea.

veBear said:
If you dont like the name, then Njord's Call could be an option, since njord were the æsir god of the sea.
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I rather like that, actually. Odin's call sounds great, but doesn't really make much sense for a water-based ability.
 
So Njord's Call it is.
 
veBear said:
Nirvana, kaupang UB is still out, and if you actually want to know, most scandinavians were christian through the most of the viking age. Still I liked the name, while Viking Raiders... Could be an reserve option. If you dont like the name, then Njord's Call could be an option, since njord were the æsir god of the sea. And please, I am a norwegian, you have to know a little more about the norse to impress :coffee:
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Well, Njord was a Vanir, and to add, he is rather obscure of a god. He also is only the god of the sea, mostly for fishermen, etc. Odin was the god that the Vikings, the sea raiders prayed to. So to me, Odin's Call makes more sense, also because way more people would recognize Odin than Njord. I still think that Viking Raiders would make more sense as a UA, as the Vikings were the sea warriors that the UA would seem to help most.
 
A good thing is that amphibious warfare has been a Scandinavian specialty long after the Viking age.

Obvious with the long coastline, and when most of Denmark consists of islands.
 
Okay, coming from a Swede that has been deeply interested in norse mythology since he was a kid:

They should definitely be called the Norse. Even though Sweden can be looked upon as the main viking hub, the Swedish kingdom would be a whole other civilization, uniquely different from the "viking" civ. It would be like comparing babylon and persia. When you say "Norse", you understand what it's all about.

A cool feature for the UU would be to be able to construct runestones, which would spread culture to the tile in which the improvement has been built and give maybe a small boost of culture, like five or so. Mostly flavorful, since the vikings did do this both in their own land as well as when seafaring. I don't know how difficult this would be to implement though, but just putting it out there.

With that out of the way, there's a lot of great ideas here. While the Hanseatic League is indeed a nice power, the Hansa wasn't viking at all since it was based in Lübeck. About the name thingie, Odin was often associated with Wisdom, but not so much with raiding. Just name it Call of the Aesir or Calling of the Sea. Sea in itself was holy enough, so they didn't really have a "god" for it.

All in all, i'm sure that this will be a great mod, just focus on the Viking part. The Gustav Adolf themed civ will probably be made by someone else, and will probably have a completely different flavor. Knut would be a good leader, as would his father or grandfather (Sven Tveiskaegg and Harald Bluetooth, if i remember correctly), but maybe a more norse spelling of the name would be in order. Or you could just add Sweynsson at the end.

Great initiative, i look forward to playing as the nords!
 
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