England - arguably the best civ for domination?

Aden52

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I really like England, they are great for any win (especially when you conquer most the world). I think more people should try them out, and I suspect they will really like them. Here's why:

They start the game with Monarchy, which is key for three reasons:

1) The most obvious benefit, is the extra culture, which means you get great people faster (and you generally get the first great person in the game).

2) Feudalism is an all important tech if you plan to conquer the AI. And Feudalism only has 2 prerequisites, Horseback riding (which is easy to discover) and Monarchy (which you start the game with). So all you need to do for Knights is research 2 techs. I'd recommend getting Alphabet to build libraries first before you bee line for Feudalism.

Or if your extremely lucky, it's possible that the great person you receive early on (from note 1 above) is a great scientist. Excellent! Research horseback riding, then start on feudalism, and have the scientist automatically research it for you.

Even without a great scientist, if you go Alphabet -> Horseback Riding - > Feudalism you'll get powerful Knights when the AI still only has archers (and not many archers at this point, either.)

3) Monarchy provides you with the ability to build the Samurai Castle wonder from the very beginning. I'd recommend that while your researching Feudalism you build this wonder. It will add +1 to your attack. Which means that not only will you get knights very early, they will have attack strength of 5.

And again, if you get lucky and get a great builder you can quick-build this wonder. The bonuses of this wonder will last a long time when you get it this early.

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Monarchy is an excellent bonus to start the game, but that's not the only reason why the English are great at domination. The era bonuses they receive are good for this victory as well.

Ancient - Longbow archer defense increases by 1, to make 3.

So this means that if you do get picked on early, you NEVER have to give into the computer, because the computer will have to send an awful lot of legions to kill your archers. Your archers will provide defense for a long time.

Medieval - Naval attack increases by one.

This is useful to give your galleys / galleons an early edge in combat, and becomes really useful in the modern era.

Industrial - Hills receive +1 production.

This is great for the extra production. It might not seem like much, but if you build a production city surrounded by a couple hills, it will factor in. Any extra production is great to pump out important wonders, and military units.

Modern - Naval support is doubled.

This is great for taking over opponents in the late stages of the game, especially if they are on another island. Your naval ships already have extra attack, so you have an easier time controlling the sea's. Factor in the doubled naval support and you'll steamroll the opponent.

Usually for me the navy bonuses don't seem to kick in until later in the game when I've already won. I generally conquer most, if not all, of my continent, which means with that many cities I can go for any win I want.

I know a lot of people say domination is easy and or lazy, but its always fun (and sometimes frustrating). Plus if you really are striving for another kind of victory, domination is useful to take out an opposing civ that is causing you headaches. All you have to do is specialize your numerous cities to the victory you want (science for tech victory, production and culture for cultural victory, and gold for economic victory).

-- Below is a recount of my recent victory on emperor as the English. It makes this post a long read, so don't feel obligated to do so :p

I tried the English the very first time I played Revolution, and I won on king. I conquered the world to the point where I could do any victory I wanted, easily.

So after beating king on all victory types I moved to emperor, where I played my first game as the English. I think that game went better than my victory on king.

I teched Alphabet -> HBR - > Feudalism. The great person I received early was a Great Leader, which is nice for rushing with Knights, because my knight armies received an automatic promotion.

I also got spies from huts which I put on my galleys and stole great people from the AI (I also explain using this strategy more in depth in the short tips/tricks thread). I used one of the great people to quick build the Samurai Wonder for extra attack on my knights.

Also, I declared war on the nearest civ (Egyptians, who were actually far away considering how small the maps are) with 2 knight armies. This early on she only had 2 archer armies in her capital. I used one of my spies to steal the great artist from Egypt's capital, Thebes, and put him on my galley. Next turn I took their capital with my knights, and on the following turn I used that same great artist to convert their 2nd city (and only other city). I eliminated them using culture, which was a first for me. I continued with knights to eliminate the Spanish nearly as quickly as I eliminated the Egyptians. When I started war on the Spanish I only used 3 knight armies. Next were the Romans on the north part of my continent.

By this time my knights were starting to get out-dated, and the Romans had the best economy, and riflemen (not sure how they got them so fast, that or I just wasn't used to seeing them by this point). I still attacked with knights, cause they were so heavily promoted, and I took a choke point city that split their empire in two. Then I teched like mad for tanks and was 2 turns from Leo's workshop. I'm not sure if knights upgrade to tanks (haven't looked into it). Also, in my cities I had set up 2 archers and 1 pike man (defense wasn't too important when I was fighting in distant lands with strong armies). Leo's would have made it 3 rifleman for an army, which is what I was going for. But guess who got Leo's workshop 1 turn before me? The Romans. Oh well, guess now they have loads of riflemen. What to do with all that production going into Leo's? Well, I built tanks. In fact, I built 6 Tanks in one turn cause of all the extra production. The Romans had 5 cities left, and I took them all in 4 turns (1 city by cultural flip, without using a great artist). So in retrospect, maybe those extra tank armies were really helpful :p

At that point I had so many cities, some already were specialized, and I could win anyway I wanted. Romans still had some island cities but were no longer a threat, and the Arabs were so far behind in technology it was a joke (The capitals I took over were all geared for science, and I had London and another city specialized for science, so I caught up and surpassed the AI fast in tech). I decided to have fun and nuke them anyways, and I attacked from my battleships to take their capital (I didn't think you can amphibious assault, but you can, at a penalty of 1/2 of your attack strength, but whats that matter if you just nuked the city :p) After I took their capital they asked for peace, which I gave them. I now controlled all 5 capitals, and was at peace with the two remaining civ's. Getting peace after you take all capitals is an easy way to ensure you get the domination victory.

Anyways, if you read my story on my emperor victory, hopefully you picked up a thing or two (and yes I was lucky to get spies and the great leader, but how I used them is what made my victory easier). Or hopefully you have advice for me! I am always trying to learn new things in Civ (both for BTS and Rev, but lately it's all about Rev :D).
 
I'm not sure if they are the best for domination, I think that there are a couple of more strong civilization for domination. Maybe in the late game the double naval support is huge, but at the beginning Zulus, Aztecs, Germans and Arabs are way more powerful for a domination victory.
 
Kazuy, that may be true, which is why I wanted to post my ideas about the English and what makes them good, and to see what other people think about them in comparison to the other good war leaders. It's easier to see more clearly why the other leaders are good for war/domination. Monarchy is really where its at for the English, getting knights fast (and I mean FAST) while have longbow archers on defense makes them good early on as well.

I have played the Aztecs and Arabs and know just how strong their bonuses are for war. The Aztecs ability to heal after combat victory is quite useful. However if you play as the English, you could rush them with knights, where killing their archer armies is a much easier time, as you likely will have the advantage. To beat the Aztecs you really only need more advanced troops, or if your tech isn't as strong, bring spies to reduce fortifications. You don't want to end up on Monty's bad side, but if you can eliminate him early, so much the better for you.

As for the Arabs, they can build catapults fairly early, however they need at least 4 techs to reach medieval era before they can build them. English only need 2 techs for knights, which are just as strong, and with more movement.

I have not really tried the Zulu's or German's, but I did watch my brother play as Germany and with 1 elite warrior unit he killed off the English amazingly fast. But then he got even more luck, as his warrior upgraded to a legion and then he took Ghandi out with that same unit. It was on king difficulty and was one of his first games, and watching him do that made me consider playing the Germans sometime soon as well.

I think the Germans ability to upgrade their elites is very useful, and great for war, but I don't think the AI uses them very well, as in all my games against them I just rolled right on through them. Then again, it is the AI after all...
 
remember, knights army has an attack of 18, a archer army fortified has a defence of 18, and if they have a barraks, its 21. So, your going to have to catch your opponent offguard, or your knights might lose.

but, the English does have the best Navy in the game, by far
 
Knights army has attack 12, Veteran makes them 18.

Archers army has defense 6. Veteran makes 9. Fortified makes 15.

So Knights actually have the edge, without any promotions other than veteran. Once they start getting promotions I've had no problems taking cities with archer armies, veteran, fortified, and with walls. Heck, I used knights to take a city with riflemen defending!

Most of the games when I win by domination its because I can usually conquer one or two civs with knights.

With a walls Archer Armies do get up to 21 defense. But even then, your knights will have promotions, and usually can attack cities with anywhere between 22-27ish in strength. Once you get a Great General then thats where you can take on riflemen with knights.
 
I'd probably go with the Arabs, then the Zulus. Beginning with fundamentalism is a huge advantage for the Arabs that most people don't seem to recognize; they basically start with warriors the strength of legions. The Zulus are good too, but they I prefer going for an economic victory with them after I take a couple capitals. :)
 
Great tip... I knew England was good for a peaceful game but I had doubts about their military strength. I missed the Feudalism beeline completely, that's definately good. I dunno if they top Aztec or Zulu however, Aztec's heal after winning bonus combined with Blitz is huge and they can defend with very light numbers which allows the upgrades to accumlate more easily and allows those hammers to go elsewhere.

Arabia I dunno, staying in Fundamentalism for prolonged periods isn't healthy I find. It's not much good if your Legions are 1 attack more if they have rifles :|.
 
Great tip... I knew England was good for a peaceful game but I had doubts about their military strength. I missed the Feudalism beeline completely, that's definately good. I dunno if they top Aztec or Zulu however, Aztec's heal after winning bonus combined with Blitz is huge and they can defend with very light numbers which allows the upgrades to accumlate more easily and allows those hammers to go elsewhere.

Arabia I dunno, staying in Fundamentalism for prolonged periods isn't healthy I find. It's not much good if your Legions are 1 attack more if they have rifles :|.

Well you're waiting way too long to attack if they have riflemen already. Your warriors start out with the strength of legions, so in 9 turns you have an army of 6 strength before any promotions. After you fight a few barbs, it'll be a 9 strength. Nobody in the game will have their city protected well enough to stop that. Don't wait around as they build their libraries and out research you to attack them. Attack them as soon as you find their capital, and now you have your second capital, they're eliminated, and you have one less Civ to worry about. Repeat.
 
I don't think you mentioned the all-important dye from Monarchy.

With the english, a sea square with dye gives 5 trade from the start of the game. As dye is all over the place (one most maps), this could be a great boost towards feudalism.

Also, think about going:

bronze working - alphabet - horseback riding - feudalism - pottery - ceremonial burial - religion (!)

The path to religion is also shortened by monarchy.

This should give you fundamentalist veteran knights armies en mass. With the help of a couple of fast great people (from the monarchy), it shouldn't take too long either (you might even get the samurai castle, as mentioned). When you get there, you will of course need to conquer another civilization. Crusade!!

This conquer should be enough to keep up with everyone until the modern era, where you build fleets of battleships, and drops your armies right onto the remaining capitals. With the double naval support, they won't even know what hit them (for some reason very few expects you to come by sea on multiplayer). The important thing to remember is that you don't need ANY other cities from the remaining civilizations than their capitals.
 
Well you're waiting way too long to attack if they have riflemen already. Your warriors start out with the strength of legions, so in 9 turns you have an army of 6 strength before any promotions. After you fight a few barbs, it'll be a 9 strength. Nobody in the game will have their city protected well enough to stop that. Don't wait around as they build their libraries and out research you to attack them. Attack them as soon as you find their capital, and now you have your second capital, they're eliminated, and you have one less Civ to worry about. Repeat.

I haven't personally done this, I'm just really so so on Fundamentalism in general, but that's cus I like to beat people with more advanced units, its funny seeing Legions run away from Cannons :P. It does function better as an early game civic.
 
England does seem good for domination, but the best? that depends on your play style.
 
I don't think you can really label any civ as best for anything. it just depends how you play it really. I think Germany's best once you get advanced tech.
 
This is a good post, Aden. The English at first glance look like they'd be more suited for turtling and going for culture early. I've never looked at it this way, and reading this makes me want to go play them again.
 
This really opened my mind as to the possibility of early knights. I had never seen that before. But I've always thought the double naval bonus, which equals +36 attack/defense with a fleet of battleships made them a great military power. The bonus is so much that it can bring artillery up to a possible 48 x 2.5 (Veteran, Great General, Infiltration) = 110 + 36 = a total of 146. Also works great for escorting attack units, boosting an artillery army's defense to 45 instead of 9, giving it even odds with a tank army
 
I think the Arabs have the capacity to deal a load of damage, as Fundamentalism, plus their Industrial trait (I think) with Knights getting +1 attack as well, a knight army will do 18 damage - 27 veteran - with Infiltration 45 - with Great General 54 (if my calculations are correct). Thats enough to take out Veteran Modern Infantry with Loyalty (only 48).

But meanwhile, the English do have the ability to Outproduce. With +1 Hill Production combined with a Workshop, you'll be getting +4 Production from hills. Not a bad number, especially if you happen to be Rome, city built on 7 hills. With a factory, possibilities are endless.

I heard Aztecs - Unit heal after winning. I see that as more advantageous in Defense, as defender will have full health as long as they win. Meanwhile the Aztecs work towards an Economic Victory (though Economic Victory is fairly Impossible at Deity level).

I've only used the Zulu once, and I don't really know what Overrun does, but what I'm thinking is that the Zulu are great for Ground Exploration, taking out Barbs to learn about the location of Relics - and to fill up your pockets on Barbarian gold, getting those Economic Achievements. Looking at the Zulu's traits, they seem very hard to play though.

Germany is of course the obvious one, but as we may or may not know, the obvious one isn't always the best. The free upgrades are nice, and the +1 production from forests means you don't need a Workshop to get +3 production from hills - combined with a Workshop along with a factory, the Germans can outproduce the British, if they have a fairly balanced City Location. Personally, I don't really like the Ancient trait - Warriors start as Veterans. Sure, they can easily upgrade to Legion after 3 battles - but that's before you discover Iron Working. Afterwards, your Veteran unit of any kind don't upgrade. Half cost Barracks comes too late - the Medieval and Industrial traits should be reversed. +1 from forests in Industrial makes sense. By the time your Barracks are done, and your Vets upgrade to Elite, you've probably already discovered Combustion and can't upgrade to Tanks. Your Riflemen probably won't fight enough to be Elite and upgrade to Modern Infantry. The only thing really upgrading might be Cannons to Artillery - which isn't bad at all. I've had an Artillery do 100+ damage. Germany would definitely be tied with the British, but I find that a straightforward Military strategy isn't that fun anymore.

Well that ends my opinion.
 
I just want to point out, in reguards to Aznwarlords post, that the way you described the German unit upgrade didnt sound quite right...

Start the game and your warriors are "1st Warriors" so they already have 3 exp. 3 victorys later and they are ''Elite Warriors'' with a special like March/Blitz/Infiltration. Make an elite warrior army ---> Discover Iron working and BAM Elite Warrior army now Elite Legion army. Same goes all the way up the tech. Ive had a warrior unit at the start of the game go all the way to a tank by the end. That single unit had over 45 victorys.

Warrior army ---> Legion Army ----> Kinght Army --->PanzerTank Army
Catapult Army --> Cannon Army --> 88mm Gun Army

While it is tru about what you said that your archers/rifleman -sometimes- wont get to see much combat to get to elite status however if your fighting off a rush early on you can see your Archers goto Modern Infantry.

I think the units need to be in an army with at least 6 victoys (or 3 if they came out of a town with a Barricks) to automaticly upgrade when you finish researching the correct Tech.

Back on topic -- Id say for Domination Victory... Germans, English, Aztec, Spain and Zulu (Rush) are all about equal depending on the player.
 
The germans get so much more useful when you get the great person who makes unit produced into a barracked city already elite.
 
After reading this post I was tempted to try this strategy myself aden.

I started the game and went alphabet-->horseback riding-->feudalism. I got a barracks and library built in my capital, then set it to producing a wonder. I got my 2nd city (from the free settler) up and running, built a barracks in it then did the same thing with the wonder production. The moment feudalism finished researching, I switched from the wonder production to knights and had enough Knights for 2 armies very quickly. It wasn't quite 0 AD so I thought I was in fine shape. I took my knight armies (with more reinforcements coming) down to the nearest opponents city expecting to face archers (was an egyptian city) and low and behold, they had pikemen armies waiting for me and my knights got thrashed.

I had never been to war with any civ prior to my "sneak-attacK" on the egyptian city so there was nothing per-say to tip them off. The game difficulty was emperor. I'm just wondering if maybe I did something way off base (and got to knights too slow) or if maybe the egyptians had gotten really lucky that game and a fast tech lead?
 
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