[R&F] England clarification

[acluewithout]

I was randomly reading Zagzagigal’s England guide for RnF - see here.

Zag says England’s +1 Movement for Naval Units built in a RND is retained when the unit is upgraded. I thought the movement bonus was lost on upgrade.

Zag also says that Sea Dogs can capture Unique Naval Units, just like how Mongolia’s ability let’s you capture unique Cav. So, you could potentially have English Jongs. I didn’t think the Sea Dog worked like this.

Can someone please test if these two statements are correct?

Separately, I thought RNDs gave +4 loyalty on foreign continents but at least +2 loyalty on your own continent. But I can’t see the +2 in any descriptions. Am I wrong about that?

I believe RNDs also give +2 Great Admiral Points instead of +1. I think we’ve tested that before, but please let the know if I’m wrong about that.

 

[NukeAJS]

+1 movement upon upgrade is definitely retained.

The others ... I dunno

 

[ferretbacon]

I can't keep up with the changes they keep making to England. And now British Museum is getting scrapped for Workshop of the World.

However, I'm certain that the +1 movement is retained. I'm also sure that the Sea Dog is supposed to be able to capture enemy ships, including uniques. In practice, I don't see it work very often. Not sure if it's working as intended.

 

[acluewithout]

+1 movement upon upgrade is definitely retained.

The others ... I dunno

I can't keep up with the changes they keep making to England. And now British Museum is getting scrapped for Workshop of the World.

However, I'm certain that the +1 movement is retained. I'm also sure that the Sea Dog is supposed to be able to capture enemy ships, including uniques. In practice, I don't see it work very often. Not sure if it's working as intended.

Really!?! +1 movement is retained?? I thought this was a long standing bug that it wasn’t? I feel like my whole life up to this point has been a sham!!!

The Sea Dog definetly can capture Units. Victoria tested this extensively. You just need to Melee Attack and have enough CS (using corps or armies helps a lot). I’m just not sure it lets you capture uniques - I’ve never tested it.

@Victoria Sorry to ping you directly, but do you know if this is right or not on the +1 movement? Or if Salty Sea Dogs can capture uniques?

Capturing uniques would be a potential game changer. Eg you could capture Dido’s UU and use that to protect your trade routes, or capture Otto’s UU and raid everything that isn’t nailed down.

 

[Rob Airdrie]

Sea dogs can capture UUs if they are of similar or lower strength. If I was at home I'd try to show you a screen shot of my wonderful English fleets of jongs and seven provinciens! It's just annoying how quick Harold upgrades his longships...

 

[acluewithout]

Sea dogs can capture UUs if they are of similar or lower strength. If I was at home I'd try to show you a screen shot of my wonderful English fleets of jongs and seven provinciens! It's just annoying how quick Harold upgrades his longships...

Wow. Okay, I need to try that one day. Very cool.

If the +1 movement thing has been fixed too, then I’m going to have a very busy 14 Feb.

 

[Victoria]

Not sure if it's working as intended.

A sea dog that is over 90% damaged can capture a battleship. I use a sea dog amada because it can capture a nuclear sub. It works in the same way as the Aztec worker capture. It can not capture barbs or CS but UU’s are fair game. There is a thread that fully explains it if you want to understand.

@acluewithout Last time I checked the MP was lost but that was a while ago. I will try to test today.

 

[acluewithout]

A sea dog that is over 90% damaged can capture a battleship. I use a sea dog amada because it can capture a nuclear sub. It works in the same way as the Aztec worker capture. It can not capture barbs or CS but UU’s are fair game. There is a thread that fully explains it if you want to understand.

@acluewithout Last time I checked the MP was lost but that was a while ago. I will try to test today.

Thanks.

On the Sea Dog, I think I know the thread you mean. I just hadn’t appreciated it covered UUs - I’d assumed they just reverted to the non-unique version but had never tested it myself.

 

[Victoria]

Before Upgrade - Galley moves 3 normally

After Upgrade - Caravel moves 4 normally - RNDY is still rubbish - stupid Firaxis, cannot even be bothered fixing bugs years old

... and just for full effect... an English Longship... maybe I should have done an English U-Boat instead.

 

[acluewithout]

@Victoria Sigh. I thought it was too good to be true. Thank you very much for checking.

I’ve raised a bug report.

England’s Royal Navy Dockyard provides +1 Movement to Naval Units built in that City.

This movement bonus is lost when the unit is upgraded, which surely is not the intention. It has been reported in a number of threads, including most recently here and tested (again) here.

@FXS_MisterKevin @FXS_Sarah I’m sorry to ping you both but this has been a problem for some time. Can you please pass on this issue to the right person, or provide a confirmation if this is actually working as intended?

 

[Victoria]

@Victoria Sigh. I thought it was too good to be true. Thank you very much for checking.

lol, NP.... and his guide is rubbuish anyway, someone that likes to write guides.... I mean it has some good stuff but inaccuracies.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

I’ve raised a bug report.

Did you submit to 2K support or only post in the Bug Reports subforum?

 

[acluewithout]

@Laurana Kanan Just on the forum.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

Just on the forum.

It'll be more likely to get noticed/addressed if you submit a request to 2K Support as well.

 

[Victoria]

Did you submit to 2K support or only post in the Bug Reports subforum?

Raised request #3994582 now... I would have thought someone should have by now but good point

 

[acluewithout]

It'll be more likely to get noticed/addressed if you submit a request to 2K Support as well.

Raised request #3994582 now... I would have thought someone should have by now but good point
View attachment 516224

Thanks!

 

[Victoria]

I hate generic support people ... they want a save, log files and my waist measurement... gah! Hate you @Laurana Kanan

 

[Laurana Kanan]

I hate generic support people ... they want a save, log files and my waist measurement... gah! Hate you @Laurana Kanan

 

[Victoria]

Separately, I thought RNDs gave +4 loyalty on foreign continents but at least +2 loyalty on your own continent. But I can’t see the +2 in any descriptions. Am I wrong about that? .... I believe RNDs also give +2 Great Admiral Points instead of +1. I think we’ve tested that before, but please let the know if I’m wrong about that.

No +2 loyalty... they only play away
Yes +2 GA

You have the good and the bad, whether that makes ugly I dunno

The off continent gold adjacency is the best feature IMO.

 

[acluewithout]

Thanks!

I’m not sure where I got the +2 loyalty from. It’s not a big deal not having that either way.

And to my mind, the extra gold and hammers is good, but the best feature is that the RND is half price!

On the movement point, at this stage, my guess is that this is like UUs that can’t be upgrade to, and is not so much a small bug but just a product of how the game works (specifically around how modifiers work). The game has the same problem with the Giants Causeway bonus.

If FXS can’t fix it, then they need to just revisit this mechanic. I really like the idea of England having to earns its +1 movement by building in the RND versus Civ 5’s flat +1 movement. But if it doesn’t stick between upgrades then really it’s anti-fun.

If it’s not fixed by GS, I might muck around seeing if +1 movement could be added when you upgrade in a city with a RND, but I think that could be quite tricky to mod.