Equipment and Artifacts

[Psychic_Llamas]

I just had an idea:

what if we use the new equipment mechanis which ploep isimplementing to make artefacts that can be taken from unique features in the world? such as the Altar of Khaine which would yeild the Sword of Khaine.

the idea is, that any unit on such a feature could cast a spell, lets call it 'explore site'. this spell should trigger an event for that feature which would be randomly selected from a small pool of events for that feature. each event would have several outcomes, but only 1 outcome of one event would yeild the artifact. all, or at least most of the other outcomes would either yeild nothing ,something terrible to happen to the civ, or something slightly good, such as a hint how to reach the artefact, or something miraculous.

the thing that started this idea was rocklikeafool mentioning the altar of khaine in another thread, which made me thing it would be cool for the sword of khain to be an equipment item in the game. this lead to the following idea for the sword:

Sword of Khain:
should grant a differnt benefit to the weilder depending on what unitclass they are.

a melee unit would get +1 Unholy strength, and ignore defensive bonuses.
a recon unit would get +3 first strikes, blitz and +1 unholy damage, and -1 normal strength.
an archer unit would get +1 range to ranged attacks and +1 unholy damage
a mounted unit would get +25% flanking bonus vs all unit types and +1 unholy damage.
a Spellcaster unit would get +1 unholy damage and make them able to cast Fury of Khaine.

and so on.
the reasoning behind this is that the sword of khain is seen as a completely different weapon to each individual, and each individual is affected by it differently.

what does everyone else think of this?

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

*yoink* reserved

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

ill take this one too, just in case

 

[rocklikeafool]

I agree. But one thing. I don't think any good civs should be able to pick it up. Unless you wanna make it so they turn evil. Which would take a lotta frickin work. (As ya know, when Aenarion picked up the Sword of Khaine, his son, Malekith, caused the Druchii to form and splinter from the Asur. Pickin up the Sword of Khain caused the offspring he had after he picked it up to become forever corrupted.) So, I think that jus evil civs should be able to take the Sword of Khaine.

Are there any other pieces of famous equipment? Besides like Hammer of Sigmar and other pieces of equipment that would be attached to heroes?

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i completely disagree with only evils being able to take the sword. im not going to argue with you untill you research more on the sundering

i believe that Vauls Anvil contains one of the hammers forged by Vaul himself, i would have to research other artefact though.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Well, where exactly can I do some research on the Sundering? Do you have a link? If so, does it cover a lot of things like, case in point, Vauls Anvil?

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

hmmm, not really any links as such, i have the warhammer rulebooks but thats not much good for you. look in the so what is this warhamemr thing anyway and read up on the backstories of the HE and DE if you like (id suggest the other civs as well)

http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/default.htm

google the sundering, but make sure it isnt WHFR, thats differnt. there will be plenty of material.

 

[deadliver]

hmmm, not really any links as such, i have the warhammer rulebooks but thats not much good for you. look in the so what is this warhamemr thing anyway and read up on the backstories of the HE and DE if you like (id suggest the other civs as well)

http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/default.htm

google the sundering, but make sure it isnt WHFR, thats differnt. there will be plenty of material.

You care about the curse effect? I think perhaps that artifacts like the Sword of Khaine (which you should admit is an evil item) should not be only usable by evil civs but maybe provide a diplomatic penalty instead? That could represent:
1.) they fear you
2.) they find the sword distaseful
3.) wow they want to kill your hero and take it from his cold dead hand.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i agree artifacts as powerful and deady as the sword of khaine should have diplomatic penalties, maybe even affect alignments slightly...

 

[deadliver]

Do you think that the appearance of artifacts (rather than just creating ones a la FFH2) can be triggered by attaining certain techs? Perhaps a warning can be issued i.e.

Finubar! Malekith has discovered the technology "<insert scary tech name>" and he comes for the Sword of Khaine (or whatever).

Okay so that is kinda crappy, I think that artifacts situated in special places should be things that are fought over, just like special features. Maybe provide a chance of losing the unit trying to pick up the artifact?

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

well id like lots of different nasty events to circulate about the sword of khaine, and different requirements for these events (such as a certain tech). only one of the events would enable you to take the sword, but most would result in the one trying to take the sword to have something nasty happen to them.

 

[deadliver]

I agree there should be nasty events for any powerful artifact, possessing any of them should be a major investment in time and units (poor units!). In the RPG the quest for Sigmar's actual Hammer takes place in an abandoned dwarfhold (i can get you the name if you are interested) infested with goblins and at least one undead dwarf (a lich) for example. I think that keeping with the dark nature of Warhammer, all of the really powerful artifacts should begin as lost items, at least they should not be buildable....though the ancient races may be an exception. Perhaps they could be spawned just like Orthus, in fact it could even begin life in that game as an item wielded by a barbarian unit...

I think this system would encourage the player (no idea how the computer players would react, prolly just take another puff, continue cheating and press end turn) to seek out these guys and waste them! Perhaps tailor the appearances to particular civs (elven items near elven civs etc) to give the proper civs a chance to regain the artifacts.

I have no programming skills beyond cut n pasting in xml and setting the time on a microwave...so please do not snicker (out loud) if my ideas are nigh impossible.

 

[Masada]

Sigmars Hammer Gharaz Maul is in the Imperial Armoury and sits with the reining Emperor (its one of the items that makes him/her the legitimate Emperor) and the only time it has left the Emperors hands was when Karl Franz gave it to Valten Sigmar Reborn.

But the scope for such artifacts is quite broad... given that even a hair of Sigmar is fought over in the Empire etc... most of the super powerful artifacts are in someones hand...

Although for Chaos you could have the "Find the Everchosens Stuff" quest

I wonder if we could instead hide the items in special Barbarian huts representing something important... ie Forbidden Hold of XXX which contains evil monsters sitting on it who dont move with some significant power... that when they all die they transfer an item?

I agree with the fundimental ideas behind that Deadliver.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

from the sounds of things, if we did something like that id rather it be a wonder. but as masada said, if we do something fancy for middenheim wed have to do something for every city.

 

[rocklikeafool]

But a wonder decrease the flavor of the mod imho. With a system based off of FfH but altered to have events that would be triggered by techs, the player would work toward discoverin those techs for that reason. (Plus, the new units, buildins, wonders, etc.) It would add nother very cool element.
I would say for the Ancient civs, they should have to forge the weapon, which would cost gold and require a resource or at least one type of specific improvement. i.e. Lizzies discover X tech, which allows them to make X weapon. To make it, it requires one lumber mill in their empire (for wood) and say cows (for leather). (I use lumber mill cuz the Lizzies don't seem to have many resources down in Itza and/or the lower Southlands.) The Weapon would be a spear of wood, bound by leather below the 'blade' part. Jus a very rough example.

 

[deadliver]

from the sounds of things, if we did something like that id rather it be a wonder. but as masada said, if we do something fancy for middenheim wed have to do something for every city.

LOL. Read my post before quoting High Lord Masada.

 

[deadliver]

But a wonder decrease the flavor of the mod imho. With a system based off of FfH but altered to have events that would be triggered by techs, the player would work toward discoverin those techs for that reason. (Plus, the new units, buildins, wonders, etc.) It would add nother very cool element.
I would say for the Ancient civs, they should have to forge the weapon, which would cost gold and require a resource or at least one type of specific improvement. i.e. Lizzies discover X tech, which allows them to make X weapon. To make it, it requires one lumber mill in their empire (for wood) and say cows (for leather). (I use lumber mill cuz the Lizzies don't seem to have many resources down in Itza and/or the lower Southlands.) The Weapon would be a spear of wood, bound by leather below the 'blade' part. Jus a very rough example.

Dude. Rocklikeafool, marry my daughter. Seriously (i'd kill you at her prom...outside the HO'tel), artifacts should be MAJOR items in the game, I agree with your agreement...the elven civs should be aware of the various elven artifacts that have been OR can be created with the appropriate techs. Heh course the Good Humans have very little artifact potential (remember the Runefangs were created by a crazy dwarf smith obligated to create them....course the RF formed the basis of the Elector system...)

 

[Masada]

*Wrong threat PL? or was that to spread the conflict to a new front *

Yeah... Old World Humans do have a surprisingly bad roundup of magical stuff to find/create... heck most of it wasnt even created by them...

Empire Stuff of Magical Usefulness

Runefangs - Dwarven
Gharaz Maul - Dwarven
Silver Seal - Human made by Techlis's first human apprentice (okay maybe it's human made... but just)
Griffin Amulet - Human Made

Thats about all the famous stuff...

Lost Stuff at some stage:

Sollands Runefang - Found; in Imperial Armoury
Vlads Ring - made by Von Carstiens kind of human?
ummm thats it....

Of course thats not including the religious artifacts that might not be poweful on their own... but hold great value spiritually... a single lock of Sigmars hair would be enough to form a a reasonable sized army around to grab... etc

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

from the sounds of things, if we did something like that id rather it be a wonder. but as masada said, if we do something fancy for middenheim wed have to do something for every city.

*Wrong threat PL? or was that to spread the conflict to a new front *

i dont know how the hell that happened :s i was trying to reply to the other thread.... oh the confusion. sorry guys

 

[rocklikeafool]

Dude. Rocklikeafool, marry my daughter. Seriously (i'd kill you at her prom...outside the HO'tel)

Why would I marry your daughter if you're gonna kill me? Kinda creepy...

(Let's not spam this anymore. It's rediculous and creepy. We're done.)