[R&F] Era Score for Ages question

[Datian]

What makes it annoying is that global era changes seem sloooooow to come.
I'm still on my first game, with the Cree, I tried not to withhold era points. The world has just entered Medieval... I'm building infantries... I had something like 250 points for a 150 GA threshold. I can't plan GA when the rest of the world is so slow.

 

[kryat]

I made this mistake last night as Tamar. I had converted half of the TSL Europe map to Eastern Orthodoxy by the end of the classical era with the Evangelists dedication, and then suddenly my era score accumulation crashed hard in the medieval era when I switched my dedications to the science based one, and I couldn’t earn eurekas fast enough. I had thought all my excess era score from the classical era would carry over and help tide me over, but it definitely seemed to use my current score as the new starting point in the calculation.

 

[EditorRex]

Learning the euruka+inspiration+era point most effective route makes game somewhat more complicated...

Also discovering that you can't use this Directive in every era. In my first game, I used this in my Normal Classical and Golden Medieval to trigger a Golden Renaissance, but when it was no longer an option, I didn't hit on an alternative that gave me as many advantages, helping me to slip into a Dark Industrial Era.

EDITED: Not "Directive" but "Dedication." Confused because it's a dumb thing to call it.

 

[NukeAJS]

I think that once you break the threshold for a golden age, any additional era points earned should speed up the end of the era. Or rather -- get to the 10 turn countdown faster.

One game I was in -- I broke the golden age threshold and had to wait almost 25 turns until the next era began. I got something like 30 era points over the threshold.

I think the way things are now is fine although someone noted it's a little odd to delay doing good things until the next era ticks over and I have to agree. But, I like how if you do get more era points than needed (by doing good things) it makes it harder to get out of a dark age. It's a balancing mechanism in other words.

 

[EditorRex]

NukeAJS, I totally agree that something like speeding up the era should happen. But do we in fact know what the mechanics are that determine how the range, eg. "14 to 34 turns," ends up reducing down to a specific set of turns. It seems like it may be a calculation of the minimum and maximum times for certain things to take place during the game, which will become more established as events progress throughout the era, until we get to "10 turns to end of era." It would be nice to know what those mechanics are and the extent to which the player can directly influence them, or possibly influence them by manipulating the AI opponent. Also, I wonder whether that range takes into account the chances of someone being killed off. Suppose that its based on max tech and the AI playing Korea has a tech lead which affects the maximum possible number of turns before Korea trips the system to trigger the next era. But the human player or perhaps another AI player, or both in tandem with CS'es attack Korea, perhaps also facing Barb pressure, and Korea ceases to be a tech powerhouse, or possibly to even exist. Very curious about that range we're seeing really represents.

 

[Cymsdale]

I don't think you need any reward for going way over the necessary era score. Era score (more or less) comes from winning, and going way over the threshold essentially means you're winning too much. The reward for this is that you're already winning.

 

[pgm123]

I think that once you break the threshold for a golden age, any additional era points earned should speed up the end of the era. Or rather -- get to the 10 turn countdown faster.

One game I was in -- I broke the golden age threshold and had to wait almost 25 turns until the next era began. I got something like 30 era points over the threshold.

I think the way things are now is fine although someone noted it's a little odd to delay doing good things until the next era ticks over and I have to agree. But, I like how if you do get more era points than needed (by doing good things) it makes it harder to get out of a dark age. It's a balancing mechanism in other words.

I think maybe you should be able to keep half. It might be nice if Normal Ages were a little better (perhaps weaken Dark Age dedications or something)

 

[EditorRex]

I don't think you need any reward for going way over the necessary era score. Era score (more or less) comes from winning, and going way over the threshold essentially means you're winning too much. The reward for this is that you're already winning.

Yes, but the way it works out by adjusting your basis, you get some advantage from "winning," but you also run a higher risk of losing in the next era because you did so well in the previous one. Also, the consequences of "losing" may be an even bigger opportunity to "win" in the next era. If that's the game mechanics they want, then I'm OK with it. But since the length off the era is unclear, I would like to understand the mechanics better.

 

[UWHabs]

I think maybe you should be able to keep half. It might be nice if Normal Ages were a little better (perhaps weaken Dark Age dedications or something)

I would say that golden ages should be better. Maybe you could add something where every point over the golden age threshold maybe gives you an extra bonus in the next age? Like, every point over the golden age threshold you get a 1% bonus to yields in the next age? So if you get 30 points over the GA threshold, you now have a super golden age with 30% bonus to all yields? I mean, if you're shooting that far over the threshold, you're probably in a dominant position anyways, so giving you an even bigger bonus to the golden age probably won't shift the balance too much.

 

[EditorRex]

OK. I think I have some useful starting answers on how the length of ages is determined from game to game. I ran a bunch of game starts on different settings to see how it affected the range of the Ancient period. I have not experimented with playing into later eras, but my understanding is that they typically have a shorter than the Ancient one. Also, I haven't checked whether age length is affected by the player CIV having a dark, normal, golden or heroic age. Someone who is about to hit an age mark in a save and is close on points might be able to experiment with this. Anyway, here are the results from my settings experiment:

The initial age length range for the Ancient period is only affected by your Time setting. It is the same regardless of whether you are a Settler or a Deity or anything in between. It is the same regardless of whether you or on a small map or a large map. Also the same, in all cases, including various time settings, is that for the Ancient period you must earn 12 event points for a normal age and 24 for a golden age. (Although Aztecs automatically start with 4 event points due to their starting Eagle Warrior.)
Here are the Ancient Age starting range lengths for each time setting:
Online 20-30
Quick 26-40
Standard 40-60
Epic 60-90
Marathon 120-180

I am aware that some players have described games in which the age lengths are fixed, rather than a range. I have not found that to be the case under any setting. I'm not running any Mods except for DLC, so maybe that's an issue?
One other side note from this experiment: I think it's interesting that you have the same time to get the same events score on larger maps that automatically start with more players, since you get event points for meeting players and city states, as well as goody huts. This would seem to add up to higher event score totals and possibly easier golden ages on larger maps, at least those that allow for steady global exploration.

 

[Jackanape]

I'm curious about the era score for the information age. It's the last age, yet it still offers a threshold to achieve, as in all the previous ages. Any idea why? Is it perhaps worth points in a score based game?

 

[EditorRex]

I'm curious about the era score for the information age. It's the last age, yet it still offers a threshold to achieve, as in all the previous ages. Any idea why? Is it perhaps worth points in a score based game?

Your final Era Score total is now a component of your total score on which your end-of-game ranking is based. Other than as a personal goal, it doesn't make much sense to have a threshold. It might do something interesting if you reach the end of the era without a victory and it has to be determined on the basis of score.

 

[UWHabs]

I'm curious about the era score for the information age. It's the last age, yet it still offers a threshold to achieve, as in all the previous ages. Any idea why? Is it perhaps worth points in a score based game?

I would assume that they would simply "repeat" the eras. Otherwise, it would matter too much what you went into it with, having a super-long heroic age or dark age would imbalance things.

 

[EditorRex]

I would assume that they would simply "repeat" the eras. Otherwise, it would matter too much what you went into it with, having a super-long heroic age or dark age would imbalance things.

Not unless they drastically changed the end of time scheme from Vanilla. If the human player hasn't been defeated and no one has won a victory by the end of time, then a winner is calculated based on score and the game ends. You can play "one more turn," but your normal rules or scoring and victories cease to apply at that point.

 

[planetfall]

The turn you go into a new age (it does not matter what type of age it is)... the calculation is done then. That is the "current point"... sorry I could have been clearer
The calculation is also done using the total you currently have, not the threshold. Boyan Sun is Chinese so his plurals are probably off... maybe "Current points" is clearer.

Calculation performed on the turn of a new era for the next era.
Dark/Normal threshold = current points + 12 + city number when era begin - 5 * dark ages you entered before + 5 * golden/hero ages you entered before
Normal/Golden threshold = current points + 24 + city number when era begin - 5 * dark ages you entered before + 5 * golden/hero ages you entered before

Great info. Which file(s) are used for this calculation?

 

[Victoria]

Great info. Which file(s) are used for this calculation?

wow, that was 5 years ago.
I am not even sure it was a file, you can work em out through trial and error
So long ago I do not remember, I can scan the files if you really wish, I am on rarely ATM

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I believe Global Parameters usually has those data:

- THRESHOLD_SHIFT_PER_CITY - how much Era Score you'll need per city.
- THRESHOLD_SHIFT_PER_DARK_AGE - how much Era Score Threshold you get from Dark Ages
- THRESHOLD_SHIFT_PER_GOLDEN_aGE - how much Era Score Threshold goes up from Golden Age.

There's also a really fun few ones unusued (not sure if they are actually functional)

- Per_Anarchy, Per_Incomplete_Era_Civic and Tech, and Old_Civic and Tech, and Missing Amenities.