Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by Dnomal, Jul 21, 2007.
By the way:
So, any more ideas? (bumb this thread up, I haven't succeeded in my Ethiopian ways). m
with the last patch, Ethiopia is a bit stronger. It may help you; let me know
Do what was suggested on the previous page: raze Jerusalem and found a city on or near the Mecca tile yourself. Unless there's another city that can flip to Arabia (such as Ur, and usually there won't be), it will prevent Arabia from founding Islam.
Still don't see how we can get the religion. I took Thebes, which had the Pyramid and Stonehenge. I could not get a GP prior to CHINA founding Theology. Since I could not get theology first, I would need 3 GP to get Divine Right.
I hear what is being said about retarding the Arabians, but wouldn't any city built near Mecca automatically flip to Arabia?
I have tried the same and im with you Barak. Without random luck I dont think it can be done. I have tried everything possible (including using WB on a couple of occasions to give me units in Mesopotamia and Arabia) to see if its possible and so far havent been succesfull.
My very first game where I founded Christianity before being humped remains not only my best attempt but my most lucky.
I gave up anyway. Im back to playing the Inca. *beats head of desk*
I suppose I could play as Egypt and retard them in such a way that when Ethiopia spawns and I switch to them I have a cake walk but i'd know I hadnt been able to acheive it myself and it would eat me up inside. Like a tummy full of maggots.
Did that as well. Still requires great luck (and China NOT researching Theology)
I remember something like that with the new patch China is not likely to research theology. This may help.
I haven't been trying any more for some time now. If the only way to do it is to prevent Arabia from founding Islam this seems some sort of unnatural hack. It is not the normal way to get something done in the game.
Now, there is a difference between pure luck and occasional luck. What I mean is; occasional luck can help you do something faster or balance some bad luck you suffered. Pure luck is that something is utterly impossible to be done normally and will happen only if you are quite lucky.
Anyway in both cases (pure luck or abnormal hack) it is not acceptable. What is acceptable is that some target in the game can be so difficult that you need to work very hard to achieve it. Working very hard means extreme micro-management to build something or to get some tech. It may mean waging war against bad odds and working to build the optimal forces for it. Anything like this is acceptable.
So, it would be fine if this UHV can be achieved through any normal track. We might not be good enough to achieve it but this is ok. I mean I can't win vanilla BTS on monarch. Some better players win on Diety. They don't use abnormal hacks and they are not just lucky.
What was this blah blah all about? Just asking Rhye or Whitefire to tell me. Is it possible for better players to do it?
with 1.05, china still researched Theology.
Well, in one of my games Egypt founded Christianity. So it is not only china that can get it. Also I can't see how it is possible to get theology first. It is always discovered by someone few turns after start. Again this depends on luck. Jerusalem must be captured by someone so Christianity is not founded there. Then no one else researches theology before you!! Only thing you can do is to hope that Jerusalem is captured and conquer Egypt from turn 1, hoping that China is not going to research Theology. If you are lucky enough you can capture Thebes just in time to have a great prophet light-bulb theology for you!! Of course you should also be lucky enough to be able to conquer Egypt with a swordsman, an axeman, and maybe one archer. Usually Egypt at the time would have several axes, and war chariots. (What the odds?)
Well....thats why there are mercenaries. Why do the work yourself, when you can hire someone to do it for you!
Research Theology and half of Divine Right. Bulb the other half with one Great Prophet.
Start a game as Egypt. Build 2 workers then Stonehenge. Build a barracks and lots of warriors. Improve all tiles with workers. Doesn't really matter what you research but I recommend archery for sure and maybe even bronze working (Don't build any axemen or spears though!!!). Keep a few warriors fortified in Niwt-Rst. Build a settler and settle either on top of the Elephants to the south or just above it. Move all but 2 of your troops into the new city.
Send the Great Prophet you produce from Stonehenge to the second city.
Switch to Ethiopia when they spawn. City flips, gives you the prophet, use it for theology. Voila', you found Christianity and have bunches of troops now to wipe out Egypt and claim stonehenge for your own. You can use it to screw the Arabs out of Islam as well =)
Yes this is lame. Yes it works every time.
My friend got within 3 turns of Divine Right before the Arabs spawned by trading for Alphabet and building research in all of his cities ( I think he had 3, Aksum or Djbouti (which is spelled wrong in game btw), Moqdishu and one inland somewhere close by) without having a religion/prophet at all. So it might actually be able to be done without using prophets or attacking the Arabs before they found Mecca.
In my experience, even with the latest patch, Christianity is still being founded 300 years earlier than it should be (ie. 1 or 2 turns after Ethiopia spawns).
I know that "new modifiers" were added to help Ethiopia, whatever that means, I haven't noticed any difference myself though. Still seems like a ridiculously tough UHV to me and Ethiopia is horrendously underpowered compared to other civs in the era.
I just cannot bring myself to start as Egypt to win it. I feel its cheating. You should be able to complete the UHV goals of all Civs from their starting points. You cant with BtS version of Rhye's. Thats not a complaint just a statement of fact.
Totally agree with your comments about the "tweaked" Ethiopia too. For a Civ that was historically the first ever Christian country with a very strong Jewish mix it also seems more than a little odd to go founding Islam. Anyhoo...I have given up and im back to attempting the Incas which I still think is possible without luck, unlike Ethiopia's.
I tried another possible way which was 7 turns short. I researched Code of Laws, as it allows caste system and you can have 4 artist specialist in your capital with all the food resources incl. the one on the sea. Divine Right can be researched by Great Artists, too (if Theology is already researched). Then I researched Theology (I built a library to boost research in both of my cities), which can be done before Arabia spawns. Then I used up my GA to research half of Divine Right but I still needed 7 more turns for the 2nd GA. Maybe with better micro it could be way to solve the riddle.
I agree that Ethiopia should have a chance to discover Christianity. In 2 tries, Egypt found Christianity is turn 112, then Carthage found it in turn 114.
Ethiopia is in a tough position as it is. With no iron or copper and restless natives, there is almost a requirement to capture Egypt to survive, which is not always possible.
I would love to see how this UHV is done without pure luck or strange methods. Jsut tried 2 move times, can't get close to founding a religion.
For the UHV, in my opinion melee units are not needed at all.
Perhaps not, but they are helpful to survive Impis.
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