[NFP] Eurekas and Inspirations for Shuffle Mode

[Lily_Lancer]

It seems that in the shuffle mode you can only reveal a tech/civic until you finish its pre-requirements, and start to do eureka/inspiration from then on.

This means now you have a very narrow time window to finish eurekas/inspirations, making them nearly impossible.

I'm sure the tech/civic pace will be slowed a lot under this mode. Maybe a standard speed SV will extend to as late as 190~200 turns in this mode(assume other settings being standard) I guess.

 

[Buktu]

https://twitter.com/antonstrenger/status/1295386630824624131?s=20

 

[Morgawr]

I am soooo excited about this mode, think it’s gonna make the game so much more unpredictable and fun. Pretty sure gonna be my default mode going forward.

Based on the tweet sounds like getting a boost unhides the tech/civic though so effect may not be as drastic as I initially thought

 

[hhhhhh]

Nah you can use the eureka to reveal the tech.

 

[DanQuayle]

Looks like the eurekas are the same too. So the fact that the techs are now hidden is basically almost a non-factor if you reveal them when you trigger eurekas (or research the prerequisite techs).

If you combine this with a mod like Real Eureka from @Infixo that randomize eurekas, now things could get more hairy..

 

[tedhebert]

Looks like the eurekas are the same too. So the fact that the techs are now hidden is basically almost a non-factor if you reveal them when you trigger eurekas (or research the prerequisite techs).

If you combine this with a mod like Real Eureka from @Infixo that randomize eurekas, now things could get more hairy..

That's not what I understood there... it really shuffles the tree, but I think they still stay in the same era...

 

[Atlas627]

That's not what I understood there... it really shuffles the tree, but I think they still stay in the same era...

Did he say anything about them not being in the same era?

The techs are random within era and hidden info, but the Eurekas are static, and achieving a Eureka will reveal where that tech is.

 

[Onii-chan]

I love this idea. Not exactly super balanced and a big hurdle for anyone that usually plans ahead a lot, but it should be a ton of fun to play with. I've previously played with a mod that turns all the eurekas and inspirations into new random effects, and that was okay-ish, but shuffling around the whole layout of the trees is a much more interesting approach to the same idea I think

 

[tedhebert]

Did he say anything about them not being in the same era?

The techs are random within era and hidden info, but the Eurekas are static, and achieving a Eureka will reveal where that tech is.

Oh sorry I read that the techs were the same when he wrote that the Eurekas were the same

my bad

 

[10101100]

Looks like the eurekas are the same too. So the fact that the techs are now hidden is basically almost a non-factor if you reveal them when you trigger eurekas (or research the prerequisite techs).

If you combine this with a mod like Real Eureka from @Infixo that randomize eurekas, now things could get more hairy..

Lol that completely defeats the point of the mode, hopefully the listen to the feedback and randomize those as well (not that I'm counting on it)

 

[Atlas627]

Lol that completely defeats the point of the mode, hopefully the listen to the feedback and randomize those as well (not that I'm counting on it)

Why? You still don't know where a tech/civic is until you achieve the Eureka/Inspiration, which means if you want more time to plan you need to achieve the Eureka/Inspiration even earlier. This still completely changes incentives.

Besides, all the pathways are still randomized, even if the location does get revealed. And the pathway may still be unrevealed...

 

[lotrmith]

Why? You still don't know where a tech/civic is until you achieve the Eureka/Inspiration, which means if you want more time to plan you need to achieve the Eureka/Inspiration even earlier. This still completely changes incentives.

Besides, all the pathways are still randomized, even if the location does get revealed. And the pathway may still be unrevealed...

Yes since you don't know the pathway, you may trigger or pursue a Eureka you don't necessarily want or need. Likewise, a tech you want or need may end up buried behind something you didn't know to pursue the Eureka for.

 

[tzu]

Yes since you don't know the pathway, you may trigger or pursue a Eureka you don't necessarily want or need. Likewise, a tech you want or need may end up buried behind something you didn't know to pursue the Eureka for.

I don't think so. In the picture of post #4 Archery may hide behind _any_ of the unrevealed techs ... the fastest way to find out & begin to develop Archery systematically is probably in general building a slinger & kill a barbarian. Seeing the position then shows (or helps speculating about) the pathway.

 

[Datian]

I think it could have been like that since the beginning.
The motto of the game was, as I understand it, to "play the map", that is to take the game as it comes, to tone down a perfect pre-planning.
Here, the eurekas are much more relevant, they help you plan as they come.

 

[monikernemo]

It seems that in the shuffle mode you can only reveal a tech/civic until you finish its pre-requirements, and start to do eureka/inspiration from then on.

This means now you have a very narrow time window to finish eurekas/inspirations, making them nearly impossible.

I'm sure the tech/civic pace will be slowed a lot under this mode. Maybe a standard speed SV will extend to as late as 190~200 turns in this mode(assume other settings being standard) I guess.

Are we going to see again a sub-200 domination I mean science victory in this mode?

 

[Pietato]

I don't think so. In the picture of post #4 Archery may hide behind _any_ of the unrevealed techs ... the fastest way to find out & begin to develop Archery systematically is probably in general building a slinger & kill a barbarian. Seeing the position then shows (or helps speculating about) the pathway.

And while your slinger is making his way to a barb unit, what are you doing?

 

[FinalDoomsday]

As some one with a brain that resists any attempt at serious planning this mode will be my default. Just go with the flow and see what comes up!

 

[Pietato]

Are we going to see again a sub-200 domination I mean science victory in this mode?

Lily takes building the 'skeleton' of his spaceship seriously...

 

[OneWorld]

I don't think so. In the picture of post #4 Archery may hide behind _any_ of the unrevealed techs ... the fastest way to find out & begin to develop Archery systematically is probably in general building a slinger & kill a barbarian. Seeing the position then shows (or helps speculating about) the pathway.

Yeah, that would be the usually strategy for revealing core techs/civis I suppose. For that reason also randomizing the eurekas/inspirations via the @Infixo 's Real Eurekas mod will be the real shuffle mode for me and these combo sounds like real fun!

 

[lotrmith]

I don't think so. In the picture of post #4 Archery may hide behind _any_ of the unrevealed techs ... the fastest way to find out & begin to develop Archery systematically is probably in general building a slinger & kill a barbarian. Seeing the position then shows (or helps speculating about) the pathway.

Say you're trying to rush Horseback Riding (perhaps you're Mongolia or Scythia, or for whatever reason). You're fishing for it, you may even build a pasture and reveal it's behind something. You have a builder with two charges... you put a farm on some rice to reveal irrigation, but it turns out irrigation is not the tech that's blocking you. The tech blocking you is actually Wheel, and you use your final charge on some copper.