Euro-Communism

[Trinity]

Market based Communism as opposed to Stalinism, or despotic communism.

Includes: Marketplaces, banks, and the Wall Street Wonder; co-existance of Church and State.

Courthouses were already built to counter corruption under Monarchy. Now we add hospitals and police in the large cities.

I know it's a contradiction, but it is interesting.

So far after 5 turns and a growing treasury and military, I have a 96% approval rating.

Hmmm.... Gandhi, after canceling our MPP, has an Aztec unit drop in and now wants the MPP again. I've got one with both. This could get interesting.

I got rid of the huge numbers of Aztec troops moving around simply by putting a stack of 3 Cavalry next to one of their cities. The AI brought them all back there and fortified them. The city will eventually fall since I've surrounded it with culturally flourishing cities. Coal resource there is important to me.

This is my first Civ 3 game. Will those under Democracy be willing to join a Communist regime?

 

[Stuka]

Let us know what happens! I'd like to see how this turns out!

 

[Sullla]

Market-based communism? Isn't that an oxymoron?

Since communism is essentially by definition the antithesis of a capitalist system, that's not the best definition there. I think the word you are looking for is "socialism", based off the current Scandanavian model.

Every communist country that has tried to institute capitalist reforms has ended up dissolving from within BTW.

 

[Immortal]

Im also interested to see how this plays out, keep us posted (you may want to start a thread in the stories/tales forum)

Im hiding under the table in case Rmsharpe sees this thread j/k

 

[punkbass2000]

Originally posted by Sullla
Market-based communism? Isn't that an oxymoron?

Since communism is essentially by definition the antithesis of a capitalist system, that's not the best definition there. I think the word you are looking for is "socialism", based off the current Scandanavian model.

Every communist country that has tried to institute capitalist reforms has ended up dissolving from within BTW.

I contend that there has never been a communist country.

 

[Sullla]

Originally posted by punkbass2000


I contend that there has never been a communist country.

A real communist country, going strictly by Marx's definition, is in all likelihood, impossible to achieve. I was going by what we tend to associate with communism, the countries that identified themselves as such. Whether or not they were theoretically truly communist or not is debatable.

In any case, I still stand by my declaration that "market capitalism" is better described (though still not that well) by using the term socialism.

 

[Kilroy]

Originally posted by Sullla
Every communist country that has tried to institute capitalist reforms has ended up dissolving from within BTW.

 

[Trinity]

I agree, every so-called communist country that has tried to implement market reforms has dissolved from within. Why? I think the answer is infrastructure. There currently is no Socialist government choice for the game. I wish there was.

Soviet Communism was nothing more than a high form of despotism. Chinese Communism is the same.

Yes, I look to the Swedish model here. The closest I can get is Communism + Market. BTW, I'm playing the French. I have yet to put a tax system in effect -- don't need it yet. This may only be a transitionary period to a Republic. I want to eliminate my strong rivals first, then go for a diplomatic victory.

I don't expect that once the Wall Street Wonder is completed in 5 turns, and I'm the only one building it, that the country will dissolve. I've been careful to make sure that enough happiness influencing and capital improvements are in place to keep things growing. Happiness is much better now than under Monarchy.

I had a total of 2 resisters among 8 Persian cities I took during the war, and immediately set out to improve their lives.

My military is huge and growing. RoP with the Aztecs is a pain in the butt. I need it for access across a couple of roads. Who says I have to allow them access into the heartland? I've got the land route there blocked and a bunch of privateers patrolling the seas sinking everything that approaches. They seem a bit paranoid and are very aggressive, yet remain polite. What are they going to do when they lose their coal and other resource from cultural defection. Buy it from me?

She who controls resources controls the game.

Funny, the Indian workers (I have an RoP and MPP with them) are fortifying my western border with the Aztecs.

Republic would be suicide right now. I couldn't sustain the military. The weak nations on my flanks are flocking to me for MPPs. I guess this is the Warsaw Pact.

The one criticism I have of this game is that wars take too many years. WWII would take about 60 years. Then there is the problem with rail gauge. It seems each country uses the same rail gauge. This wasn't historically true. In WWII the Russians had a different rail gauge than Germany. The Germans had to rebuild the rail system in the conquored territories. Yet, here all nations use the same rail gauge. Personally, as a defense, I'd want to use a different rail gauge.

 

[-proletarian-]

Originally posted by punkbass2000


I contend that there has never been a communist country.

Communism is fascism by another name.

 

[FrosTi]

Originally posted by -proletarian-



Communism is fascism by another name.

they are opposites... Fascism is for the supreme power of the state while Communism wants the abolition of the state

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

Yes, yes, yes...we're NOT here to debate communism, unless your stated opinions include 'communal corruption' and 'good unit support'. Keep it civ-related or it's closed

 

[Kanadees]

Have gun - will kill

Communism is a capitalist plot!

Give me your problems, I will make them bigger.

 

[-proletarian-]

Originally posted by FrosTi


they are opposites... Fascism is for the supreme power of the state while Communism wants the abolition of the state

In theory, yes. But when put into practice, communism merely devolved into fascism. How can there be supreme control over a command economy without the authority of the state? Communism is an inherently stupid ideology, and is supported by a cadre of delusional "intellectuals" who have their heads too far up their asses to realize that human nature will always triumph over "the collective good".

Power corrupts. That is why a nation can never be put into the hands of an unelected elite, because they will inevitably abuse that power. It's just like Winston Churchill said, (and I'm paraphrasing here) "democracy is the worst form of government, apart from all the others".

 

[-proletarian-]

And yeah, I know that post will get killed, but I felt like I just needed to get that off my chest......


-makes nice to the mods-

 

[FrosTi]

Originally posted by -proletarian-



In theory, yes. But when put into practice, communism merely devolved into fascism. How can there be supreme control over a command economy without the authority of the state? Communism is an inherently stupid ideology, and is supported by a cadre of delusional "intellectuals" who have their heads too far up their asses to realize that human nature will always triumph over "the collective good".

Let's take as example USSR and Fascist Germany. They were both oppressive governments of course. Yet, both were different. 1) There have been elections after the russian revolution and the communists lost it... So Lenin just take the power by force and USSR became a police state. For Germany, Hitler was elected (and started military production to get out of the recession, it worked btw ). 2) USSR shared the wealth of the country (not always true, there was always favouritism, but they did ) while Germany did not... To say that both are oppressive it's true, but they are still different. So, you can't say Communism is the same thing that Fascism

Oh well, it's good I just succeeded to post before this thread gets closed lol

P.S.: sorry for any english mistakes

 

[-proletarian-]

-LoL-

Yeah, methinks all the mods are sleeping......

Hitler was never elected, however. The most he ever got in a free election was around 33%. However, the conservatives tried to pacify his National Socialist movement by granting him the post of chancellor. The rest is history......

And no, the USSR only ever distributed wealth from the people to the ruling class. It's one of life's ironies that "communism" more closely resembles capitalism in the latter's extreme form than any capitalist economy has ever come close to.

 

[marshal zhukov]

Communism and Facism are different .

The U.N recognized that socialism is better to end porverty than any other type of goverment , eventhough socialism is not good to create wealth it is a great system to share the little wealth a country has. Socialism has proven to be able to provide the people with the basic needs just like in Cuba and in China.


Socialism was the thing implanted in the USSR and it would have worked out fine if it hadn't been for the arms race with the mighty US. Communism like all you guys said has never been implanted in any country.

Facism ,on the other hand is different, is a capitalistic and militaristic regim that has no intentions of end porverty.
I believe that a good definition for facism would be a Capitalist Dictatorship.

Written by Zhukov the greattest general of WWII

 

[-proletarian-]

Well of course the U.N. would say that, the U.N. is a left-wing organization. And Cuba has been a disaster, people there are forced to turn to prostitution (their John's are foreigners on vacation, of course) or black-market activities to have enough money to survive. Doctors go without medicine for their patients. Thousands are rotting in jail for daring to criticize the policies of their "liberator" Fidel Castro.


China admitted socialism's failure in 1978 when Deng Xiaoping opened up the economy to market economics by instituting SEZ'S (special economic zones) across the mainland. China is now a rapidly-growing market economy, and 20 years of capitalism has improved the lives of the Chinese more than the previous 50 years of communism ever came close to.


GOOOOOOOOO.........CAPITALISM!

 

[monkspider]

Well put Zhukov.
It is better that Stalinism collapsed though, after Lenin the USSR lost it's way. The fall of Stalinism has led to the rise of the second generation of Marxists, such as the Socialist Parties in Europe and even groups such as Neo-Trotskyists have gained a lot of ground.
It's been said that Stalin set back the cause of Socialism by a hundred years, this may be true, but the fall of Stalinism has had an overall very positive effect on Democratic Socialism.

 

[monkspider]

Proletariot- The Cuba of reality and the Cuba of American propaganda are vastly different beasts. Cuba has one of the better health-care programs in the world and is one of the largest contributers to third-world nations.

Also, it is true that China has taken capitalist steps in helping out their people but this does not mean that they have not lost their sight of their goals. Capitalism is an essential step to Socialism. Karl Marx's steps of social evolution were capitalism, then socialism, then communism. Since China did not undertake capitalism in their years under western imperialism, it is essential that they do so now. I wish the people of China the best, and hope they do what it takes to improve the lives of their people.