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Euzkadi: Basques as a playable civilization!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - New Civilizations' started by Shqype, Jan 16, 2006.

  1. Shqype

    Shqype Shqyptar

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    I'm really sorry man but I don't know how else to help you. LAnkou made the flag for me so I obviously didn't know how to do it myself... I hope he's able to help you out with it...
     
  2. LAnkou

    LAnkou Breizh A Tao

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    well, you are one of the few that has problem with multi colored flag, try changing the alpha channel to white...
     
  3. BlackEye

    BlackEye Chieftain

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    how?
    i'm very noob modding :S
    where's the alpha channel ...?
    thanks :)
     
  4. BlackEye

    BlackEye Chieftain

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    successful :) now i can see ikuriña (basque flag)

    thanks for all
     
  5. Shqype

    Shqype Shqyptar

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    :) Well I'm very happy that this finally worked out.

    What are your thoughts on the Gudari? Should the stats be changed?
     
  6. BlackEye

    BlackEye Chieftain

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    i'm really happy with gudari, but some friends of mine thinks movement=2 y really powerfull ... (i wouldn't change it :mischief: )
     
  7. Shqype

    Shqype Shqyptar

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    Naw, it's pretty much on par with the other UUs... hopefully your friends will like it better once I include those custom Basque sounds ;)
     
  8. Txui

    Txui Chieftain

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    Hello everybody, Im new to the forums


    Very pleased to see a Basque civilization, seems that not everybody forget us ;)


    But I see a couple of mistakes, if you let me to correct them

    -The Capital city is Iruñea, not Gasteiz, Iruñea is the historic capital city as Gasteiz is just and administrative capital citi of a divided Basque Country

    -Secondly, Euzkadi and Euzko Gudari are writen with S instead of Z, so Euskadi and Eusko Gudari, in the past (as our language was very divided) it was writen with Z or S but nowadays is with S
     
  9. Shqype

    Shqype Shqyptar

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    Alright, I can make Irunea the capital in the next version.

    I chose the "z" version instead of the "s" version because "z" is the original version created by Sabino Arana ... being as he is the leader of the civ I chose his spelling. Plus I like originals instead ;)

    If yo uhave any other suggestions about the city list or anything let me know. :)
     
  10. Txui

    Txui Chieftain

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    ok I will do it


    For example I think that you could include another historic leader as Eneko Aritza or Santxo III
     
  11. Shqype

    Shqype Shqyptar

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    Being as I am not Basque, I do not know enough Basque history. This was originally made as a request by Dawntreader. Others helped me as well.

    I originally wanted to include "Sancho" III but from what I understood he was a Spaniard. Perhaps I am wrong, but I decided not to include him as a Basque leader since the Basques aren't Spanish and might have been offended by such a thing.

    If you can give me the names of leaders you want to include and history + specifications (2 leader traits + favorite civic) and a picture then I could incorporate them into the next version with the Basque sounds BlackEye was kind enough to record for me.
     
  12. Txui

    Txui Chieftain

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    All right


    I will try to do something
     
  13. Lucius Sulla

    Lucius Sulla Gens Cornelia

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    Actually talking about 'Spain' in the time of Sancho III 'the Great', king of Navarra, in the XIth century, is ridiculous. There was no such thing as Spain at that times. It would be arguable even that there was such a thing as Spain until the late XVth century, or even up to the early XVIII century, in some ways. There were basques, though, and they were at that time in what was the kingdom of Navarra. And Sancho was the king, indeed, so it's an appropiate leader choice.

    If you mean that Sancho was of a Castillian dinasty (and was the origin of the Jimenez, the most famous Castillian dinasty in the middle ages), you are right. But dinasties/people were a very different thing in the middle ages. Richard the Lionhearted was occitan (southern france) first, norman second. But he was an English king, and nobody would say otherwise.

    If I would choose two traits + favourite civic for Sancho III, I would choose Agressive + Expansive (he did unify all the Christian kingdoms in Iberia at the moment, and he did seem to have good policies of repopulation). Civic, I would choose either Hereditary Rule or even better Vassalage (just to be a bit original)

    Now, unfortunately, I have to get a bit in the muddied political waters.

    A majority of basques are Spanish right now. I don't think they should be offended by a fact. Some of them might wish to change it, but even then, there's a current reality now going on. Wishing has nothing to do with facts. If you are offending the type of guys that would be offended by this type of thing, it would be the same of worrying about offending Al-Qaeda and their support base in the muslim world. That is, you should really not. In the same way, getting that type of view of the basques is like thinking all muslims are supporters of Al-Qaeda.

    This is now a personal recommendation. If you are not basque, though, you should be careful before making certain statements, specially considering that you seem to be supporting certain (false) propaganda supported by a terrorist group.

    Said that, I think a Basque civ mod is a great idea. Somebody should add a Catalan / Kingdom of Aragon one, too :).
     
  14. Shqype

    Shqype Shqyptar

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    I am making a civ under King Alfonso of Aragon for a scenario of mine during the 15th century.

    Basques != Spanish. They are 2 separate people. I was not sure of Sancho III, which is why I did not include him.

    Your Al-Qaeda comment is not really relevant. A majority of Basques may live in a Spanish state, but that does not make them Spanish ... they still have their Basque culture and customs which differ from those of the Spanish.

    I was careful not to offend them because as an Albanian with parents born under a Montenegrin state I would be offended if somebody called me or my parents Montenegrin.
     
  15. Lucius Sulla

    Lucius Sulla Gens Cornelia

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    There are at least 50% of the Basques that feel Spanish (and of the rest, they feel it in different degrees, except the independentist minority), including several friends of mine, and your comment would be found highly insulting and degrading to them. You simply do not have the faintest idea of what you are talking about. I don't have any idea about the Albania/Montenegro situation, thus I express no comments about the matter, but seemingly your complete lack of knowledge does not impede you to do the same.

    "Basques != Spanish. They are 2 separate people."

    This, so everybody can read it, is a racist comment.

    I have a friend in Euskadi. His father was killed by people who said that basques were not Spanish, and as his father and his family, who were basques 100% said so, they shot a bullet right into his head. You insult his memory.
     
  16. BlackEye

    BlackEye Chieftain

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    we must separate politic and game ...

    if anybody was offended,they can choose not to play

    this is a free world :)


    very great job shqype ;)
     
  17. Lucius Sulla

    Lucius Sulla Gens Cornelia

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    Well, he does not. Did you see me posting anything when this was a mod? Nope. Basque civilization is neat. Why not?

    I posted because he did not 'separate politic and game' in post #31. From the moment he posted a political statement ("since the Basques aren't Spanish and might have been offended by such a thing") he invited political debate. From the moment he uses the propaganda of a terrorist group, men who murder people because of their ideology, he desserved to be reminded of this fact, and to be reminded that there are people who were killed because of saying the kind of thing he denies.

    It's the same as if he was denying the holocaust. Not such a popular theme. But down there, in its very root, is practically the same.

    This is a free world indeed. There is such a thing as free speech. And, because there is free speech, there is such a thing as free response.
     
  18. Kale Borroka

    Kale Borroka Chieftain

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    To say that the only people who believe Basques are not Castillians (ie, Spanish, I think this is what he was trying to say) are terrorists is just as "offensive," as whatever you're taking issue with, in my opinion. Basque political opinion fluctuates and its difficult to measure when the Spanish government goes to great lengths to suppress leftist Basque nationalists who are interested in more than autonomy, but there are many who do not support violence that do support a non-Spanish and non-French Euskal Herria. There are also a number of Basques who see themselves as Basque, not Spanish, but are more conservative. This is why the Basque country has its own autonomous police and government (whatever one's opinion of those institutions). So cut the crap about terrorists.

    Furthermore, ETA has abandoned killing as a political tool and is attempting to forge a truce with the Spanish government, who refuses to comply and continues to torture and murder Basque activists (not Etarras!). So stop trying to play the sympathy card about your friend's dad (why did they kill him, out of curiocity?). Death is sad, but it hasn't been one sided by any means and ETA did more than anyone else to undermine the Fascist regime.
     
  19. Shqype

    Shqype Shqyptar

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    Basques do not equal Spanish.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basques

    The Basques are a distinct people separate from the Spanish. They do not speak a Romance language (like Spanish) but their own distinct Indo-European language. My intent was not political oriented, and really has no place in this thread. My comment did not refer to a political stance and an opinion of a Basque today about whether he considers himself Spanish or French, or neither, but that his ancestors were not Spanish or French and that should be known and respected.

    Whether a Basque feels that times have changed and he wants to be a member of the state he is under, that is up to him. Whether he opposes that state and wants to be recognized for his distinct Basque heritage, that is up to him as well. But I will represent the Basque people through this game's civilization by providing sounds in their language, not Spanish or French.
     
  20. Lucius Sulla

    Lucius Sulla Gens Cornelia

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    This is a plain, and simple LIE. And a miserable one. I dare you to bring these issues from an external, unbiased site (a New York Times article and the likes would be a valid source, for example).

    And this is coming, so everybody should know from a guy called "Kale Borroka" who, for the information of the other posters is the way the 'young base terrorism groups' of ETA is called in Basque, the ones that help the terrorist organization to mark victims for death, identify their habits for better and safer killing, and also, the ones that stone the cars, do anonymous death menaces through painting them on the non-sympathizers front doors, etc.

    About the Spanish government killing basque activists, the only example that can be provided was a group of Spanish politicians in the 80's that tried to organize an opposing terrorist group called 'GAL' to turn grounds on 'ETA', specially since it seemed that they could find a safe haven in France. Spanish law uncovered this organization and brought the responsible to prison, in the exact same way that the ETA terrorists who are caught and condemned after a trial are taken to prison. ETA has stopped seemingly killing for the last two years, but it is really unclear that they have stopped doing so because they feel the basque oppinion will rather be repulsed by further killing than out of any good free will, since they indeed have not stopped painting 'targets' in the opposing politicians houses, keep trying to extort money from Basque enterprise owners (they call it 'the revolutionary tax'), and keep terrorizing the streets of Euskadi when they feel like it.

    Shqype:

    I agree that basques are indeed a different people. But saying the basques that live in Spain are not Spanish is preposterous. But it has no sense to say that they are a different people from Spanish.. because Spanish is not an ethnic denomination in Spain (although it is indeed a ethnic denomination in the US, for example, but they do refer to different groups), as Basque might be. Basque are indeed different from Castillian, Basque are different from Catalan, Basque are different from Galician... but it has no real sense comparing, Basque and Spanish because they refer to different fields. There is a minority of the Spanish Basques that want independence and their own state. Well, good for them... as long as they don't kill or hurt anybody, in any way.

    What I understood is that you took great pain to not do something that offended people, or so you said. Well, what I am telling you is that you seem to take a great deal to not offend the basques who do not feel Spanish. But you don't seem to care about the basques who might feel Spanish, and who have taken such a death toll for their beliefs (and a far, far greater death toll than, since the end of the dictatorship, who *everybody* in Spain suffered, basque or not, comparred to the Basques independentism).

    My dad's friend by the way, died quite some time ago. He was a low ranked politician in a small basque town that was member of a non independentist political party. For what he told me, he was just having a cup of coffee in a bar with his friends. Then a masked man just walked behind him, aimed a gun at the back of his head and shot him dead, spraying with blood his friends. I hope you will understand now why I do feel concerned when I see somebody making such statements in an otherwise innocent environment.

    By all means, by the way, don't abandon this mod. Just don't make political statements as you have done, which I would beg you to retire. As I said it is a good idea building up a basque civilization for Civ IV. By the way, Alfonso V is a sad choice for a catalan civ, since he was castillian... if you would think about it, a much better choice would be Alfons II, Jaume I or Pere III. Pity it was a XV century scenario, anyway.

    Myself, I would not mind that we catalans would have their own autonomous state inside a European Union (that's how much Spanish I feel myself, eh?), but, the thing is that there is not an active terrorist organization that is currently in Catalonia but there is one an Euskadi that taints any such claims in that same direction. Who has not stopped producing bad damage on innocent lifes.
     

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