Everyone hates me because I won't DoW on them?

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

One of the changes I would argue strongly for is that there should be a gradual return to neutral relations presuming no other actions.

It is rather silly that in 1950 you can have -x from "you traded with our worst enemy" when you traded said enemy corn in 2000 BC. And conversely if you and Alexander went to war together against the Persians in 300 BC how much should that effect diplomacy in the modern era?

Change each leader' memoryrand.

 

[G-Max]

I don't think the game needs to have rules especially designed to support peaceful countries like Switzerland.

I'm not asking for the rules to be "specially designed" to "support" Swiss-style countries. I'm asking for them to make sense so that Swiss-style countries don't get universally hated.

I started in the middle of a continent which I fondly call "The Psychiatric Ward": Genghis, Monty, Cathy, Izzy, Shaka, and JC were all there for the party. But it's been pretty smooth sailing, even amid all these wonderful neighbors of mine. Why? Because there was also Mansa Musa, way off in an easily-defensible corner of the continent! Everyone HATED him. I joined a pile-on that has so far lasted from 2500 BC to 500 AD, marathon, and since no one's actually been able to break Mansa's geographic bottleneck I'm drawing continual "mutual struggle" bonuses from warmongers. Useful.

 

[karadoc]

I don't think the game needs to have rules especially designed to support peaceful countries like Switzerland. As I have mentioned, I've played many games of Civ4 in which I haven't been involved in any wars, so Switzerland-like countries can exist in Civ4 with the current rules.

I'm not asking for the rules to be "specially designed" to "support" Swiss-style countries. I'm asking for them to make sense so that Swiss-style countries don't get universally hated.

What I'm saying is that Swiss-style countries can exist in Civ4 without being universally hated. Do you disagree with this claim? Are you trying to tell me that in your opinion simply denying all war requests should be enough to make everyone like you? Your point of view is not clear to me.

 

[Tristan_C]

What I'm saying is that Swiss-style countries can exist in Civ4 without being universally hated. Do you disagree with this claim?

The usual suspects for JOIN_WAR are Cathy, Elizabeth, Kublai, Saladin, and Surry. One or more of these on a map will make Switzerland's life more difficult.

 

[G-Max]

What I'm saying is that Swiss-style countries can exist in Civ4 without being universally hated. Do you disagree with this claim?

YES! If you avoid war, you're eventually going to get anywhere from -10 to -20 from every player because you keep refusing to join their stupid feuds.

Are you trying to tell me that in your opinion simply denying all war requests should be enough to make everyone like you?

I've already addressed this issue. See posts #14, #25, #44, #53, #69, and even the very post to which you are responding, #82.

Either I'm doing nothing, which should incur no positive or negative attitudes from anyone, or I'm actively rejecting one of the belligerents, which indicates favoritism.

By my logic, I should either (a) get a -1 for the civ that I actively reject, and +1 for the civ that I decided not to attack, or (b) not get anything either way.

You are the only person believing that civs should love you for staying neutral.

But I DON'T believe that. This is called a "strawman argument", and is an example of a logical fallacy.

fall in love

You sure do love your strawman arguments, don't you?

I'm saying that it should score you a net total of zero points from all players combined.

I'm not asking for the rules to be "specially designed" to "support" Swiss-style countries. I'm asking for them to make sense so that Swiss-style countries don't get universally hated.

 

[karadoc]

In that case... let me just repeat again that I've played many games in which I've avoided all wars completely. I've won games like that. I've seen AIs avoid all wars. I've even seen games which no wars are fought ever by any civilization. So from my point of view there is no problem and I really don't see what you are complaining about.

In your most recent post you have emphatically claimed that you don't think denying war requests should be enough to avoid war. So what do you want then? Avoiding wars is clearly possible, so I don't see why you think Switzerland is some kind of problem for Civ4. You mentioned that Switzerland wasn't hated by the Allies even though they were apparently still trading with the Nazis... well so what? You can often trade with warring civs in civ4 without people getting upset. And even if you couldn't it really doesn't make any difference. Leader's attitude points just represent how much that leader likes or dislikes other civs. It doesn't have to be exactly the same as how some real-life leader makes judgments; just as the way I decide who I like and dislike doesn't have to be the same way that you do it.

 

[none]

In that case... let me just repeat again that I've played many games in which I've avoided all wars completely. I've won games like that. I've seen AIs avoid all wars. I've even seen games which no wars are fought ever by any civilization. So from my point of view there is no problem and I really don't see what you are complaining about.

Exactly.