Exhausted from bad luck

[morchuflex]

I agree that you have to look at the whole picture before feeling cheated by temporary bad luck
But sometimes, it is just way too unlikely.
In a recent game, playing Babylon, I went on an early war with my neighbors. I attacked them with hordes of veteran bowmen. Their cities only had regular phalanxes, no walls and no terrain bonuses. I lost seven attacking bowmen in a row. I stared at the screen for a few seconds. Then, sadly, I hit < ctrl - shift - Q >...
In another game, playing Romans, my army of elite legionaries attacked a non-fortified swordsman standing on grassland (w/o any river inbetween!) and lost 11 HP in a row.
Such things did not happen in Civ2. It really makes the game harder (which can be good in a way), but makes me feel unsecure (as in Civ1 or Col). I hate that.
Plus, it's highly unrealistic. I just lost a BB to an enemy ironclad. In the real world, a BB could destroy about 100 ironclads without ever taking a hit (just by staying out of their range!).

 

[Mr Funkypants]

Example of unfair fighting: When I was a noob, I used 8 or so regular musketmen to attack 1 elite musketman in an enemy city. All of them died, and the enemy ended with some 3 or so health left. That is really stupid. And today, the average was: 3 swordsmen to take out 1 enemy legionaire. I know legionaires are supposed to be good, but isn't that a bit overeactive. And aren't greek hoplites basically useless against rome cause they have the same defense AND better attack for their UU?

 

[wilbill]

Learn not to attack with defensive units or defend with offensive units unless it's absolutely necessary. The Hoplite is basically a defensive unit, and a good one. It's better than a spearman and serves well through the middle ages. Attack with it and you waste it.
Run a few examples through the Combat Calculator and you'll quickly learn that some of the combat that "seems like I should win" isn't really such a good idea.
A regular musketman attacking a fortified elite musketman in a city has only a 0.6% chance of winning. If you'd attacked with 100 regular musketmen and won once that's about what you could expect.

 

[Gargantutron]

yep play with the combat calculator a bit. you'll notice that some battles you might think is easy wins, are actually almost impossible...

 

[SuiCyco MF]

Renfield did a perfect job of pointing out that things like this are not only possible, but actually HAPPEN. It's funny. Some of us rant on and on about realism, but how realistic is it to continuely reload a saved game until you get the result you want.
Now while I may not ENJOY when these thing happen, it does make the game more fun by keeping alive some of the unknown "fog of war" elements. What does your "combat calculator" have to say to that!!!

If you want it to seem realistic, next time it happens just pretend that it was a case of fraticide. (that's friendly fire) This would make up for the very unrealistic lack of any actual friendly fire casualities in the game.

 

[wilbill]

Originally posted by SuiCyco MF What does your "combat calculator" have to say to that!!![/B]

Same thing it always says - certain results are going to happen a certain percentage of the time. How you deal with those results is up to you.

 

[derekroth]

Hmm a battleship losing to a caravel? Sure it is possible but if it happend to you more than once in a game I would be totaly supprised. I am playing a game right now where I got super lucky and am ahead in the tech race by a significant lead. I have been killing frigates with distroyers for what must be thirty turns now. I don't see any use in even "softening" the targest with bombardment to minimise damage to my ships when I attack. Of what must be 50 or more (perhaps much more) separate instances of full health destroyers attacking full health frigates, I have lost only ONE time. And, I had one red lined destroyer sunk by an attacking Frigate. LIke others have said, maybe you just notice your bad luck more than your good.

 

[Stevenpfo]

I quickly made something after I read this post you may enjoy ... Just an experiment and it may make your gaming experience better in Civ3 ... This is for Conquests only.

Here's the Readme.txt (the spacing did not translate well from the readme.txt to this post ... I apologize for that):

Some people have stated they don't like it when their Tank is defeated by a Pikeman, so I have changed the stats to better suit their wants. I have not tried to go by 'realistic' standards. Instead I have simply multiplied the ATK, DEF, BMB and AIR-DEF-STR of all units by this fomula:

ANCIENT TIME - 1 x 1
MIDDLE AGES - 1 x 1.33
INDUSTRIAL AGES - 1 x 1.66
MODERN TIMES - 1 x 2

Also have changed the Combat Experience as follows:

Conscript - 3
Regular - 4
Veteran - 5
Elite - 7

This should, hopefully, make more experienced and more technologically advanced units have a better chance to win each round or give them more rounds to win in.

Here are the new stats for the units:

**** ANCIENT TIMES ****

UNIT NAME --------- ATK - DEF - BMB - AIR-DEF-STR

Warrior 1 - 1 - 0 - 0
Archer 2 - 1 - 1 - 0
Spearman 1 - 2 - 0 - 0
Swordsman 3 - 2 - 0 - 0
Chariot 1 - 1 - 0 - 0
Horseman 2 - 1 - 0 - 0
Catapult 0 - 0 - 4 - 0
Galley 1 - 1 - 0 - 0
Jaguar Warrior 1 - 1 - 0 - 0
Bowman 2 - 2 - 1 - 0
Hoplite 1 - 3 - 0 - 0
Impi 1 - 2 - 0 - 0
Legionary 3 - 3 - 0 - 0
Immortals 4 - 2 - 0 - 0
War Chariot 2 - 1 - 0 - 0
Mounted Warrior 3 - 1 - 0 - 0
Gallic Swordsman 3 - 2 - 0 - 0
Numidian Merc 2 - 3 - 0 - 0
Enkidu Warrior 1 - 2 - 0 - 0
Three-Man Chariot 2 - 2 - 0 - 0
Chasqui Scout 1 - 1 - 0 - 0
Javelin Thrower 2 - 2 - 0 - 0
Dromon 2 - 1 - 2 - 0
Ancient Cavalry 3 - 2 - 0 - 0
Curragh 1 - 1 - 0 - 0

**** MIDDLE AGES ****

UNIT NAME --------- ATK - DEF - BMB - AIR-DEF-STR

Pikeman 1 - 4 - 0 - 0
Longbowman 5 - 1 - 2 - 0
Musketman 3 - 5 - 0 - 0
Knight 5 - 4 - 0 - 0
Cavalry 8 - 4 - 0 - 0
Cannon 0 - 0 - 11 - 0
Caravel 1 - 3 - 0 - 0
Frigate 3 - 3 - 4 - 0
Galleon 1 - 3 - 0 - 0
Rider 5 - 4 - 0 - 0
Musketeer 3 - 7 - 3 - 0
Samurai 5 - 5 - 0 - 0
War Elephant 5 - 4 - 0 - 0
Cossack 8 - 4 - 0 - 0
Man-O-War 5 - 3 - 5 - 0
Privateer 3 - 1 - 4 - 0
Keshik 5 - 3 - 0 - 0
Conquistador 4 - 3 - 0 - 0
Berserk 8 - 3 - 0 - 0
Sipahi 11 - 4 - 0 - 0
Ansar Warrior 5 - 3 - 0 - 0
Hwach'a 0 - 0 - 11 - 0
Medieval Infantry 5 - 3 - 0 - 0
Carrack 3 - 3 - 0 - 0
Swiss Merc 1 - 5 - 0 - 0
Trebuchet 0 - 0 - 8 - 0
Crusader 7 - 4 - 0 - 0

**** INDUSTRIAL AGES ****

UNIT NAME --------- ATK - DEF - BMB - AIR-DEF-STR

Marine 20 - 10 - 0 - 0
Modern Para 12 - 22 - 0 - 0
Rifleman 7 - 10 - 0 - 0
Infantry 10 - 17 - 0 - 0
Tank 27 - 13 - 0 - 0
Artillery 0 - 0 - 20 - 0
Ironclad 8 - 10 - 10 - 0
Transport 1 - 3 - 0 - 0
Carrier 1 - 13 - 0 - 2
Submarine 13 - 7 - 0 - 0
Destroyer 20 - 13 - 10 - 2
Battleship 30 - 20 - 13 - 3
Fighter 7 - 3 - 5 - 0
Bomber 0 - 3 - 20 - 0
Helicopter 0 - 3 - 0 - 0
Panzer 27 - 13 - 0 - 0
Guerilla 10 - 10 - 5 - 0
Cruiser 25 - 17 - 12 - 2
Paratrooper 7 - 15 - 0 - 0
Flak 1 - 10 - 0 - 3

**** MODERN TIMES ****

UNIT NAME --------- ATK - DEF - BMB - AIR-DEF-STR

Mech Infantry 24 - 38 - 0 - 0
Modern Armor 48 - 30 - 0 - 0
Radar Artillery 0 - 0 - 32 - 0
Cruise Missle 0 - 0 - 32 - 0
AEGIS Cruiser 30 - 20 - 12 - 6
Nuclear Submarine 16 - 8 - 0 - 0
Jet Fighter 16 - 8 - 6 - 0
Stealth Fighter 16 - 12 - 12 - 0
Stealth Bomber 0 - 10 - 36 - 0
F-15 16 - 8 - 12 - 0
TOW Infantry 24 - 28 - 6 - 0
Mobile SAM 1 - 12 - 0 - 8

 

[KaDingir]

I, too, had always been skeptical of some of the claims of victimization at the hands of the RNG, until it happened to me. In my current game I had been merrily kicking the sorry butts of the Aztecs with my modern armor. At one point ol' Monty started hauling out his six thousand year old spearmen to stand in my way. One of these hoary fellows planted himself in front of one of my stacks, so I red-lined him with artillery and then finished him off with a regular modern armor. Except....he won. My 24 point attack value modern armor was destroyed by a red-lined spearman. Many words not used in polite company escaped my lips.

But then, during the course of the war I had been on the winning end of the RNG's vagaries many times: a single modern armor taking out three tanks without a scratch; an ironclad coming out on top in a battle with a battleship; even a transport surviving an attack by two destroyers. It all balances out in the long run.

 

[Raijer]

Originally posted by KaDingir
It all balances out in the long run.

I agree. Still, man I just HATE it when the balance favors the AI! In my most recent game, I am simply being hammered... by barbarians! The most ridiculous example being a two hit-point Gual taking out (and then ransacking) a town. This (1 population) town was built on a hill, guarded by a fortified vereran Spearman, and the barb had to cross a river. Grrrr!

 

[Greyhawk1]

I've never seen a Spearman take out an MA at any time. All the MA I've lost have been to Infantry and nothing less. Naval battles are another matter. I've never once had a single Privateer survive any battle at all - ever in any game. Battleships are routinely routed by Ironclads. Frigates soundly wreck Destroyers and Aircraft Carriers are sunk by small children in boats armed with catapults...

Shore bombardments rarely do anything and I've never seen a Jet Fighter successfully bomb anything. They always fail.

1 Rifleman surviving a Knight Army plus about 10 other Knights from Regular to Veteran was probably my best ever result though in my favour. I couldnt believe it when it took out that Knight Army...

 

[genghis_khev]

Originally posted by Greyhawk1
Aircraft Carriers are sunk by small children in boats armed with catapults...

Sorry. I've just got a very visual imagination and that statement provides me with a highly amusing picture. Cool!!

As everyone has said thr RNG may suck at times and give you a bad event but to be 100% honest I have never seen anything truely unbelievable, some severly bad luck, yes, but nothing truely "impossible".

Another historical example during the Boar War at Roark's Drift where 150 British Riflemen held off an assault by 4000 Impi warriors (over 26 to 1 numerical advantage). A Good RNG result by anyones standard.

 

[philippe]

Originally posted by sealman
Everyone remembers the string of bad luck but seem to recall the strings of good luck. It all balances out in the end.

I have had games were my full HP modern armor could not beat a wounded rifleman. But earlier in the game, my two regular muskets held off a 6 turn attack of cavalry after cavalry.

I do have to confess that I have never witnessed my undamaged modern age units losing to ancient era units. But I have seen my redlined tanks fall to undamaged spearmen as I attempt to make that last ditch effort to capture a city that turn.

I already had very good luck.
My longbowmen killed a modern infantry
But i one won a battle versus a pikemen with my spearman

 

[morchuflex]

Civ3 stands between Civ1 and Civ2 in terms of battle randomness.
Civ2 battles were highly predictable: when you attacked a warrior (without defensive bonuses) on grassland with horsemen, you knew you would win (maybe taking some damage, though).
Civ1 battles were highly random. Everyone remembers loosing battleships to galleys (formerly known as triremes). I even once lost a bomber to a diplomat...
Civ3 is in between: individual rounds are more random than in Civ2 but since battles take several turns (unlike Civ1), you can expect things to turn in your favor, at least when you are much stronger.

 

[Pook]

Originally posted by Renfield

Look at the USS Cole. A state of the art war ship taken out by a rubber raft.

US troops in Somlia lost very advanced helicopters to a ragtag group of rebels.

The frustrating times in Civ are what make it realistic. Advanced units can and do lose to inferior units in the real world.

One more real life example: In 1935 an Italian fighter doing a strafing run in Ethiopia got shot down by a spear which lodged in the propeller.

Hang in there, and listen to the advice in all the above posts.

 

[aeldrik]

To all you guys coming out there with examples where out of pure luck Iraqis brought down a US Chopper by throwing a stone at it.....
I mean please,....

First, do you really think a unit in CIV is only ONE chopper/plane??????
this might only be true for naval units, but even then, the COle wasn't destroyed, it was just damaged!!!

my proposal on this, is that they should be an option stating "can't be destroyed by..." meaning a Battleship CAN NOT be destroyed by a galley.... they can get damaged, yes, even to 1 HP(this would be the Cole Example), but should not be destroyed....

 

[Longasc]

Today a fortified Warrior, 3 HP, behind a walled size 5 town took down an attacking Veteran Medieval Infantry.

8.4% chance that this would happen and 1% that he would not lose a single hp.

It happened.

I immediately renamed this Warrior to Conan and he is now a honor guard of my Capital.

 

[genghis_khev]

Best way to deal with it: Humour.

2nd best: Revenge - I have commited Scorched Earth warcrimes going as far as to pillage ALL terrain improvements along the way. I only kept the cities that got me new resouces or luxeries or could be used to link those cities to my main empire. Ha - Ha see my fingers of power streach aross the land !!!! As I had railroads and airports as well these fingers formed lovely staging posts for further offensives (or is that offences) against the much weakened enemy. Lodsa slaves too!!

 

[Mr. Do]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
(In principle, he could have had a 6HP all-Conscript Immortal army, in which case the chance of losing against that Warrior fortified on a mountain jumps to 10.7. But if anyone's ever build a such army, well, he/she deserved something much worse than losing it to a Warrior.)

Out of interest, how would he get conscript immortals?

 

[Turner]

I'm thinking conscript warriors upgrade to Immortals. But it's been so long since I've played persia, I don't remember.