Expansionist and Proud! But why?

[Superevie]

Hello!

What does the expansionist trait actually do ? I've had it before (playin' the americans, baby!), but I didn't notice any difference. It may be because I wasn't playing attention, due to hours of sleep lost playing Civ III, but what is the difference?

Cheers!

Superevie

 

[WildFire]

It gives you a scout. When you start the game, make sure you have the civ specific traits turned on to have this ability.

Whenever the scout gets a goody hut, he can NEVER pop barbs. Its always something else. And of course, you get to meet other civs quicker and sell the communications for lots of money.

 

[Gengis Khan]

Expansionist gives you a free scout in the beggining of the game & the ability to produce them from the start. They also don't get any barbs from goody huts.

In my opinion expansionist is one of the weakest traits, you need to be playing a large map to fully take advantage of scouts & the no barbs is only very useful on the higher levels(diety, maybe emporer) when barbs are actually a threat. On monarch & below popping out barbs is almost always a free promotion to elite.

 

[Superevie]

I knew about the scout, but I didn't realize that you didn't get barbs from goody huts. I thought I was just lucky when I didn't find any.

 

[DS_Legionary]

Gengis I can't believe that you don't like the Expansionist trait. Though it is quite useless in the later part of the game. It gives you a great headstart at the beginning. Plus you don't have to research pottery so if you have the parfect spot for a settler factory you can get that up and running a bit quicker. Anyways, that's just how I feel about the Expansionist trait.

 

[meltone1]

aren't they also more likely to receive tech's from barb huts?

That's strange that you feel expansionist is one of the weaker traits. I think that having a scout early is key, since in the games I play, it is always a race to get as many cities down as possible in the early stage. Also, finding barb huts is of prime importance, since you can really boost your tech by finding them, and deprive your neighbors of them at the same time. Lastly, since you don't have to worry about hostile barb huts, you don't have to worry about scouting with warriors, or other units that attack, just leave them to defense. It is true that expansionist benefits wane as the game progresses however, but that makes sense.

IMO, religious would prob we the weakest trait.
m2

 

[Superevie]

Originally posted by meltone1
aren't they also more likely to receive tech's from barb huts?

That's strange that you feel expansionist is one of the weaker traits. I think that having a scout early is key, since in the games I play, it is always a race to get as many cities down as possible in the early stage. Also, finding barb huts is of prime importance, since you can really boost your tech by finding them, and deprive your neighbors of them at the same time. Lastly, since you don't have to worry about hostile barb huts, you don't have to worry about scouting with warriors, or other units that attack, just leave them to defense. It is true that expansionist benefits wane as the game progresses however, but that makes sense.

IMO, religious would prob we the weakest trait.
m2

All the games I play where I explore like a madwoman and get a lead on tech ensure that I always when by miles.

 

[Gengis Khan]

Originally posted by Gengis Khan
In my opinion expansionist is one of the weakest traits

I knew that would get a reaction from all the expansionist lovers out there.

Melt1: I don't beleive the percent changes for getting tech/gold vs a non expansionist civ. Since I normally play monarch I don't worry about barbs popping out anyways, while it would be better as a tech its still normally a free promotion to elite.

DSL: The pottery bonus is hardly worth considering because it is (again IIRC) the cheapest tech in the game. It takes like 10 turns to research, thats perfect time to get your first 2 warrior scouts out & start a pre-build. Also letting your city get up a few levels in pop.

The biggest advantage to having expansionist is the scouts, having a ton of scouts out exploring a large/huge map will get you TONS of goody huts. But on a smaller map you'll gain a better advantage with ANY other trait. Expansionist is to map dependent for my liking & thats why I consider it one of the weakest.

Just my 2c, but to each his own

 

[gozpel]

Scouting the map is often more important than getting a couple of techs. Build another scout or two and send them in different directions and you'll soon know where the good sites are for your next cities. And you will find your opponents quickly as well.

 

[vbraun]

I think that expansioist is one of the best traits especially for multiplayer. Thats why in my current game im russia.

 

[DS_Legionary]

I do agree with you Gengis that the expansionist trait is very "map dependent" but even so that extra tech or settler you popped from that one hut could make the difference on whether you make it to that wheat on the floodplains before a closeby rival, or get Iron Working before your neighbors. (Then of course you sell it to them )

 

[lz14]

Have a tech lead in the ancient age aren't good. The AI will constantly demand it. I have to give in otherwise I will fight a war with scouts.
They cost money too, once I forgot that and build too many and it drained my treasury in no time. So an expansionist civ normally can't research at 100% or so which isn't good in some cases.

 

[Grille]

The usefulness of the expansionist trait is not only map dependent, but also on difficulty level and (maybe especially) on number of opponents. It's generally dependent on all chosen game settings.
Goody hut results are worse on deity (more empty huts for expansionists, more barbs for non-expansionist civs). On a pangaea map on deity with maximum opponents, the ai (wether expansionist or not) will probably pop more huts with extra starting units than you ever could. OTOH nothing beats that trait if you play -say- a large pangaea (sedentary barbs) vs. 3 or 4 civs on regent (just crank out enough scouts early). You'll probably enter the medieval age very early (note that popped tech is never the current research topic, thus you can slightly control the pop-outcoming tech). Playing America (these are great for that variant), I once built every wonder D) up to HD IIRC on my own (I quit game then, got too boring - cultural victory disabled) with the game settings stated above. I almost didn't sell techs, nor any of the few possible contacts - just to avoid ai tech trading and tech cost drops.

A settler, however, will only appear if you have less cities than the avarage ai city number (plus: no settlers currently under construction or wandering around), so you wouldn't normally expect a settler when you can out-expand the ai.
Granted, a very early popped settler close to your capital just pays off alone for choosing the trait, a free settler in 3900bc or so is equalizing the deity ai bonus settler (their biggest advantage on that level IMHO). Then again, I would hope for an early free settler being non-expansionist.

 

[anarres]

Grille,

Are you 100% sure hut results are different on Deity than Chieftain? I find it hard to believe, but if you or someone else we know and trust has done a test I will believe it.

 

[anarres]

Regarding the chances of popping a tech as expansionist:

The chances of getting barbs is 0%, so the chances of getting a tech is slightly higher, but so are the chances of popping maps, gold, settler, city or nothing.

 

[Melifluous]

Originally posted by anarres
Grille,

Are you 100% sure hut results are different on Deity than Chieftain? I find it hard to believe, but if you or someone else we know and trust has done a test I will believe it.

I have done extensive testing of hut popping on various levels of difficulty, yes there is a greater chance of getting barbs on Deity than any other level something like 1 in 3.

Melifluous

 

[anarres]

Have you published your results Meli? I would like to know the odds please.

 

[Melifluous]

OK,

I will try and dig these out again.

I did this about 6 months ago for personal use, but I probably still have the scenario I used

Melifluous

 

[sabo]

Like everyone said, the expansionist trait is a HUGE advantage early in the game, especially if those scouts can pop new cities, settlers, and techs from the goody huts, besides that you know where all the nearest resource and luxuries are..

 

[Grille]

Originally posted by anarres
Grille,

Are you 100% sure hut results are different on Deity than Chieftain? I find it hard to believe, but if you or someone else we know and trust has done a test I will believe it.

The assumptions I've made arrived from long time ago (playing mostly on regent then). I naively figured that the expansionist trait/goody huts would be *the solution* D)for beating deity (keeping up in early techs plus gain some gold, that is). It didn't work...
(I was too bad overall anyways, but hut luck was much worse than it used to be on regent).
Later I suspected that barbs occur more often on higher levels, for non-expansionists, of course.

Anyway, here's the result of Bamspeedy's *official*
goody hut test. This doesn't cover the barb chances thingie, though. Maybe Meli's test shows that in full clearness.

Btw, note the 50gold-hut trigger, another result of the test Bamspeedy made.