Experiences with Terra map script

[Trigan Emperor]

Terra: A continents map where all major civilizations start on the largest continent.

In Civilization V, I found this map script didn't work because the AI civs didn't start colonizing the New World until very late in the game.

I think there are a two possible reasons for this:

1) The AI civs thought it was too far away to settle.
2) The AI didn't know about the New World because they didn't explore that quickly.

I was having a look at the worlds generated by the map script in Civ VI. There are three examples below. It's set on Small map size.

It looks like it might be possible for the AI to find and settle the New World.

Anyone tried this map script in Civ VI?

 

[agonistes]

I use terra (at least until giant earth is working again), assuming you mean Gedamon's terra.

The ai will explore as far as they can, and will settle. You probably are just always ahead in tech. Watch Norway when they are in the game - they explore very far early on, and where the ai explores, the ai will settle, if they can.

 

[Trigan Emperor]

I use terra (at least until giant earth is working again), assuming you mean Gedamon's terra.

The above screenshots are the vanilla game's Terra map script, but with YnAEMP mod active, which keeps hexes around ice clear to allow for circumnavigation at the poles.

Here's an example of the YnAEMP Terra map script. It's slightly longer and thinner than vanilla dimensions.

It has too many islands for me, and it also has city-states appearing in the Old World, whereas in the vanilla Terra map, they are only appearing in the New World (although I might have to do some more testing to see whether that's always the case).

I was going to try and cram 14 civs into the Old World, on a Small map, Quick speed, so probably each civ would only have a couple or so Old World cities. Then add seven city-states for the New World. With the YnAEMP mod active, one can choose city-states so I'll, for my first attempt at least, use the seven New World city-states:

Buenos Aires
Cahokia
La Venta
Mexico City
Nazca
Palenque
Toronto

 

[Sostratus]

and it also has city-states appearing in the Old World, whereas in the vanilla Terra map, they are only appearing in the New World (although I might have to do some more testing to see whether that's always the case).

In my experience the CS will almost always exclusively spawn on the New World continent on vanilla Terra. However, people have remarked that every so often (probably due to lack of space) a few can end up in the Old World.
I dislike the New World CS behavior because unless you are willing to go capture and possibly raze them, they leave very little space for actual settling between them!

 

[Trigan Emperor]

I dislike the New World CS behavior because unless you are willing to go capture and possibly raze them, they leave very little space for actual settling between them!

I was only going to have a few city-states in the New World, so lots of space for settling.

If it works out, then I might make a mod of city-states for the Terra map using real historical names of indigenous New World settlements.

 

[Uberfrog]

In my experience the CS will almost always exclusively spawn on the New World continent on vanilla Terra. However, people have remarked that every so often (probably due to lack of space) a few can end up in the Old World.
I dislike the New World CS behavior because unless you are willing to go capture and possibly raze them, they leave very little space for actual settling between them!

I actually quite like this: it gives you an extra incentive in terms of envoys/CS bonus for exploring the continent’s interior, and adds a little bit of tension to what would otherwise be the player vs the barbarians.

 

[MrRadar]

Anyone tried this map script in Civ VI?

The ai will explore as far as they can, and will settle. You probably are just always ahead in tech. Watch Norway when they are in the game - they explore very far early on, and where the ai explores, the ai will settle, if they can.

I played a few Terra games, but I haven't seen AI actually going for the New World even on Deity. The AI is so cramped in the Old World that they are too busy duking it out between themselves and the player, little energy is left for colonization. I even had Maori AI in a couple of Deity Terra games, you'd think they go and grab that empty continent for themselves? No, a couple of cities here, another there, but they will send half of their settlers to found cities on the fringes of the Old World, where they would flip.

Although on Continents and Islands map the AI indeed goes and settles island groups in the middle of the ocean. So maybe the problem is in AI struggling to scout out the interior of the New World in Terra? Oceans are probably easier for them to explore with caravels.

It seems the script generates equal landmasses for the Old and New Worlds, however, the Old World should probably have 2/3 of the land tiles and 1/3 should be left for the New, so not all CSs would be placed in the New one. The settling behavior of the AI (and scouting imperatives) should be also improved accordingly. AI settling still has those echoes from vanilla, when they will ignore lots of free land but will go ant put some stupid city just next to the player or other AI just because.

So far, this type of map still works best in Civ IV.

 

[cvb]

It seems the script generates equal landmasses for the Old and New Worlds, however, the Old World should probably have 2/3 of the land tiles and 1/3 should be left for the New, so not all CSs would be placed in the New one. The settling behavior of the AI (and scouting imperatives) should be also improved accordingly.

What I find strange is this talking about "Old World" and "New World" ...
In civ6 there is mostly no 'Age of exploration', because most often ALL is connected. Take the example of the YnAEMP Terra map above: the most to the East player can simply use the first 2 charges of his first builder in the "Old World" and can then happily explore the "New World" with his first builder (or galleys). THERE IS NO NEED FOR A SECOND GENERATION OF SHIPS. No narrative of discovery or piracy. Boring.

,

 

[Trigan Emperor]

I played a few Terra games, but I haven't seen AI actually going for the New World even on Deity. The AI is so cramped in the Old World that they are too busy duking it out between themselves and the player, little energy is left for colonization. I even had Maori AI in a couple of Deity Terra games, you'd think they go and grab that empty continent for themselves? No, a couple of cities here, another there, but they will send half of their settlers to found cities on the fringes of the Old World, where they would flip.

What map size were you using?

By cramming 12-14 civs on a Small map size Old World, I would think there would be no space left there for new cities pretty early on. Also, on small map size, the distance across the ocean is also going to be less, so hopefully easier for the AI to explore.

So far, this type of map still works best in Civ IV.

Yes, Terra map worked in Civ IV.

 

[MrRadar]

What map size were you using?

Standard

By cramming 12-14 civs on a Small map size Old World, I would think there would be no space left there for new cities pretty early on. Also, on small map size, the distance across the ocean is also going to be less, so hopefully easier for the AI to explore.

I'm afraid the small size and tight space will only make it worse. AI will stagnate due to much fighting, it will struggle with loyalty flips and will generally get nowhere. As far as I can see, they tend to do better when they have more space to expand or gobble up a neighbour. Maybe it is worth to try the opposite and cut the number of AIs in half, or at least by one third? Like human players, they do better when they can snowball.

 

[Basajaun]

Ive played quite a few terra games (about 20) and its quite consistent. Most CS spawn in new continent, in all my games never 3 CS or more in the old world (standard and large sizes).

AI is less interested in settling other landmasses than in any other kind of map script, and I always met the new world CS first. Even after settling around 10 cities in new world, max AI did to me in deity was suzerain a couple CS and raze my cities. They didnt even steal those or settle more.

Terra script, at least in the unmodded, original version, is just a wargame

 

[Gedemon]

The above screenshots are the vanilla game's Terra map script, but with YnAEMP mod active, which keeps hexes around ice clear to allow for circumnavigation at the poles.

Here's an example of the YnAEMP Terra map script. It's slightly longer and thinner than vanilla dimensions.

It has too many islands for me, and it also has city-states appearing in the Old World, whereas in the vanilla Terra map, they are only appearing in the New World (although I might have to do some more testing to see whether that's always the case).

What I find strange is this talking about "Old World" and "New World" ...
In civ6 there is mostly no 'Age of exploration', because most often ALL is connected. Take the example of the YnAEMP Terra map above: the most to the East player can simply use the first 2 charges of his first builder in the "Old World" and can then happily explore the "New World" with his first builder (or galleys). THERE IS NO NEED FOR A SECOND GENERATION OF SHIPS. No narrative of discovery or piracy. Boring.

,

I'd suggest to use the "Two scripts" option instead of the "multi script" for "map shape" when using YnAMP Terra to make the separation happens most of the time and reduce the number of thin islands.

The 2:1 ratio is kind of mandatory to allow a "2/3" vs "1/3" landmass ratio for the "old world" vs "new world" while keeping enough ocean between them for the "second generation" ships to prevent early discovering of the new world.

Spoiler examples of YnAMP Terra, small (2:1), Two scripts (Continent, Small Continents) :

I've not set an "new world only" option for CS (it's "old world only" or "everywhere"), my though was that it would advantage the human player too much (because AFAIK the AI is not more interested in settling oversea than with all the other scripts), but it can be simulated by selecting the civilization and CS on the setup screen and use the (relative to real Earth) TSL option.

On a side note, there have been some useful feedback on that map script, but I lack motivation to mod the map pack for a game that is so unstable at big map sizes, I'll may go back to it and add more options and tweak the current options if Firaxis manage to restore at least the pre-GS stability.

Because it's not quite what I want at "Huge" size and above with the "multiple scripts" option, need some smoothing, "fatter" islands and to make oceanic separation happens more frequently.

Spoiler Huge and Giant multiple scripts generation examples :

(and I need to find out what is this mysterious Antarctic Island generated all the time )

edit: ho, it's the Piopiotaahi

 

[cvb]

Would the shown maps receive with a 'High sealevel' a stronger separation or wouldn't that matter?

So I note YnAMP Terra, Small-Enormous (2:1), Two scripts (Continent)

I'm probably a bit excessive with this separation theme ... in civ4 I changed with Compass or MetalCasting (half way to Navigation/Caravels) every Ocean plot with Coast plot adjacency into a Coast plot, which connected some close separations, but not all ...

.

 

[Gedemon]

It's not quite what I want at "Huge" size and above with the "multiple scripts" option, need some smoothing, "fatter" islands and to make oceanic separation happens more frequently.

Arghhhh!

I can't help myself, now working on the script again... Not sure if I should thank you guys...

 

[cvb]

Yes, this absolute silence is the worst. Maybe it is wrong to move, maybe it is wrong to stand still, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe

Maybe they try to really polish the final version and our modding base improves/changes significantly one more time, maybe it is actually already frozen since fall. Maybe.

Take care of yourself!

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