Exploiting Slavic Federation Bonus

[Navelgazer]

For all of the one or two other people still checking this corner of the sandbox:

I've been really playing around with BERT (finally) in the last couple of weeks, and have had some good runs with almost every sponsor, save for two: KP and SF. I haven't messed around with KP yet simply because their bonus feels kind of boring, particularly without the previous boost to outpost development, but I'm sure I'll get around to them at some point. But I understand where their strength is,

My bigger question is about SF, whose "bonus" seems so pointless to me that they might as well be blank, but I'm sure I'm missing something (even if they're not particularly "good.") Like, Brasilia isn't "good," but they can still be fun, and the game's easy enough once you get the hang of it that I can be leaning into their bonuses for a different kind of game even at the higher levels. But with SF? I don't know what making the most of their abilities would even look like.

So the question is, if you're playing an SF game, wanting to really get some use out of them, what's your strategy? What are you prioritizing? What resource-intensive Orbitals are you trying to start spamming out? Etc.

Thanks in advance.

 

[vorlon_mi]

Good question. In my base playstyle, I tend to build Spy Satellites and Station Sentinels most often. Longer duration for those is nice, but not vital. By the time those orbital units are running out of turns, I usually have enough energy income to just buy new ones. And neither of those require Oil, LOL.

Map type? I tend to play Fungal, Primordial, or Atlantean planets with plenty of resources. I have little need of the Orbital Fabricator or Weather Controller, but if I were to switch to Frigid or Arid worlds I might need those.

Let's talk about victory conditions. I'm nearly always going for Harmony or Supremacy, which means I expand early- and mid-game, and defend in the end game. I might consider launching some Orbital Lasers to defend a choke point; Planet Carvers seem a bit too expensive. I've never been the victim of really debilitating Covert Ops from the AI, so the All-Seer has not been necessary. IIRC, its prereq technology (Dark Networks) is not on my usual path.
The Lasercom Satellite (for Purity or Supremacy) and Deep Space Telescope (for Contact) only need to be built once, so extending their duration is immaterial.

If I were pursuing Conquest, then building the offensive orbital units (Orbital Laser, Planet Carver) makes sense and building the Phasal Transporter also makes sense. AI original capitals could be landlocked, and "beaming in" an army is faster than swimming them over.

When I play SF, i am usually trying some aggressive military tactics, taking my cue from how the AI plays them. Kozlov is the biggest warmonger, DOWing as often or more often than Rejnaldo. But upon reflection, that doesn't use their characteristics to an advantage.

You've given me an incentive to look at other orbital units. One could build Holomatrix satellites to make a culture city powerhouse; I've been trying to figure out how to get the "Mighty Fine Shindig" achievement. One could build Weather Controllers for tundra / mountain cities to give them a chance to grow.

I wonder if having better strategic resources was more important in the diplomacy system of the base game (could you trade them?), and the revised diplomacy system of BERT served to negate this advantage.

 

[Navelgazer]

Ha! I think I got the "Mighty Fine Shindig" achievement in my first completed game, probably because I was playing as if it were a game of Civ, the way I tend to play Civ games (very culture-heavy), on a low difficulty setting, and it went on for a long time. So there's one way, but probably not a very satisfying one.

I did an Élodie run a few days ago just seeing how hard I could lean into virtues and, well, her ability still doesn't make much of a difference even maxed-out and prioritizing culture over everything else. But hey, it gave me a mission for the game session, which is what I'm still more or less lacking for KP and SF, though your comment helps a lot there.SF really feels more in need of a redesign (that will obviously never come except through mods) than any other Sponsor. It's like they wanted to lean into Resources while still sticking with the original Satellite focus, and ended up with nothing much of anything, particularly because resources are plentiful and evenly distributed, and the techs to reach them aren't hard to get to (except for Geothermal, which is a bit out of the way.)

The best designs, in my opinion, say "if you do X, you'll get Y," which is why I don't hate Brasilia's design (though it should definitely be stronger than it currently is.) Chongsu, likewise, has a very interesting design in my opinion (though dwarfed by ARC, which still pushes you into being actively involved in Espionage in order to get the most out of things.) KP... is the opposite of this, really. Just a straight passive bonus, though I suppose going super-wide to maximize it would be at least something. Even PUA's bonus requires you to keep healthy, which isn't necessarily a cake-walk. But SF's bonus feels like "If you beeline to these awkward units, you won't need quite as much of something you'll have anyway in order to build them," which just makes me feel like I'm missing the point, you know?

 

[vorlon_mi]

Agreed. The early orbital units, that cost less to build, don't actually require Oil. The late orbital units come so late that I have other priorities, like building units for Supremacy or Mind Stems and Xeno Sanctuaries for Harmony. It's weird to me that none of the surface units or naval units require Oil. Only late orbital units require Oil.

 

[legalizefreedom]

You folks are confusing me a bit. Except about the part where SF needs a redesign.

I've always been confused by the orbital-units-last-twice-as-long "bonus". I really only prioritize the food and production satellites because they create resources. They usually produce two resources in their lifespan. Once they produce two resources (if I can be bothered to remember) I delete them to make room for another that will produce more resources. Now I would hope that the resource generation still happens at the normal rate even when they are extended, but that just means the bonus is neutral (zero usefulness) for my purposes. If the resource production is spread over the new longer duration, that would be a significant nerf and a big negative. Orbital units are not production intensive that you need to worry about production towards them. They're cheap.

The static bonuses are good if you need them, but there are farms and mines for that. The health satellite is useful at that big growth part of the early-mid game before you get biowells, but generally only if you find one. The culture satellite is cool too, but it's really just icing. If you have food and production, you can get anything you want through buildings and units.

The one you could abuse it with would be the Teleporter.

 

[vorlon_mi]

Sorry to be confusing.

In looking up SF's advantages, one of them is +50% Petroleum Resources. Next, I went to the Civilopedia (and the Civ Wiki) to see which units required Oil. The only units which require Oil are the later Orbital units. In particular, the two you mention do require Oil. So, SF could build more of them even with a starting location that doesn't have a lot of naturally occurring Petroleum. Argh! I just realized that I was reading the wiki page for the base game, not Rising Tide. For BERT, the SF trait is "reduction in required strategic resources." That's the confusion, caused by me.

@Navelgazer is asking, "how would one play the Slavic Federation that really uses / exploits their traits?" It's hard to formulate such a strategy.
Yes, one could potentially produce lots of orbital attack units. They would stay in orbit longer and one would not have to worry about running out of Strategic resources.
BUT, orbital units like these *can't move* once they're deployed. These units are mostly defensive, not offensive.

One could build several Phasal Transporters, for invasion on continents far away. Only valuable on certain maps / planet types.

Again, looking at the Civilopedia -- because I don't build these orbital units -- the other late-occurring orbital units that do require Strategic are largely defensive and can only be deployed within your own orbital coverage. They're just not that useful.

Which brings us back to SF needing a redesign. Their unique advantages don't really help the player win the game. Their advantages serve to buff a set of units that aren't worth building.

 

[legalizefreedom]

I wouldn't say they're not worth building... at least the food and production satellites. Anywhere I have two ocean, plains, tundra or desert tiles gets one or the other. But oil and titanium are generally available. I usually prioritize settling their locations as needed. And truthfully, the teleporters hang around long enough for an invasion already. I do need to refresh the one at home base/victory wonder location, but it's a one or two turn build at that point.

On a side note, you guys talking about BERT led me to start up a game. I rolled Chunsu Supremacy on Frigid and I'm holding out for pure supremacy units. Love that suit!
I've been wanting to play a Civ VI game... Don't think I've played one since the first New Frontier Pass update, but as usual, I'm feeling BERT more eventhough I just played one a couple of months ago.

 

[War-mongering_Child]

A bit of a gravedig here, but wondering if anyone has found a satellite strategy to take on Apollo? I've been trying a strategy where I rush Array tile improvements and use spies to complement my science, and only 1 out of my 4 games was i able to stay alive long enough to become a threat. I am thinking that the only real way to make this faction viable is the old Academy spam trick, but the problem with that will be a really high energy maintenance, so I don't really know...I was only able to sustain that strategy with Hutama as they get a massive energy boost from trading. I'll try again tomorrow to see if there's anything I can do but this faction seems pretty bad on paper. Basically my understanding of this faction is that by the time it could get use from lots of satelites, your cities would already be able to take everyone out in a Domination victory anyway. I don't see any good reason to pick this faction over Hutama or ARC other than flavour, or doing lower difficulties where it doesn't matter and so you can play the thematic style. I'm hoping there is something I am missing, so we will try again tomorrow.

 

[vorlon_mi]

As I wrote above, I am not enthusiastic about the perks for building satellites. When I play Kozlov, I usually take the same approach that I would with Arshia (Al Falah), Samatar (Africa), or Elodie (FI). Hutama is all about trade, Integr is all about diplomatic capital, PAC is all about the wonders, and Brasil is all about the warmongering. But the others are more terrain dependent, along with how close I am to a neighbor.

 

[legalizefreedom]

I wouldn't know personally, but I would think that on Apollo, your focus would just be on the growth and production from satellites, so it might make sense to have the longer duration bonus(es), but again, they are generally not lengthy builds. And I doubt you would choose that virtue over another, so it would just be an auto thing with Slavakia.

 

[War-mongering_Child]

I wouldn't know personally, but I would think that on Apollo, your focus would just be on the growth and production from satellites, so it might make sense to have the longer duration bonus(es), but again, they are generally not lengthy builds. And I doubt you would choose that virtue over another, so it would just be an auto thing with Slavakia.

My trouble is Slav has nothing to offer in the early or even mid game because satellites take a heck of a lot of research and my affinity suffers, causing me to die to an ai that over took me. I'm thinking I have to forget researching satellites in the early game.