Extremely frustrating AI behavior

[Createk]

GnK - people crying AI is abusable and stupid

BNW - people crying AI owns them and is actually competent

After 1-2 games I felt like this too but after playing more games I have started to like the AI.

Playing Emperor/Immortal btw

 

[Nickel_lion]

GnK - people crying AI is abusable and stupid

BNW - people crying AI owns them and is actually competent

After 1-2 games I felt like this too but after playing more games I have started to like the AI.

Playing Emperor/Immortal btw

Why more people don`t do this? I've experienced the same.

 

[Emperor Giulio]

I was a King player on G&Ks, but now I think I may promote myself to Emperor in BNW.

King seems A LOT easier now. I haven't tried the harder levels yet.

 

[MadHaxxor]

try playing online, then everyone is on an equal playing field

 

[VainoValkea]

GnK - people crying AI is abusable and stupid

BNW - people crying AI owns them and is actually competent

I actually wasn't crying in Vanilla/G&K because I thought the cynical opportunistic warmongerer AI was intentional.

Now I'm actually disliking the AI changes, in a way. Less stupid wars, more stable diplomacy, more opportunities for trading - these are definitely good things. But the AI is far from competent. They aren't nearly as opportunistic as they should be. They won't try to capitalize on my military weakness, for example, when I'm embargoing them in the WC or even as I'm winning the game.

 

[draedan]

also I hate that they DO NOT BUILD more than 3 cities.. I'm playing in immortal , our continent has the most powerful nationalities , and I see many empty spaces with luxury, strategic resources.. They do not build.. their cities are so huge, but they are not gaining those luxury resources for trading meanwhile I am building 6th city and trading all of my excess resources to them, it is like cheating for me.

They used to build in every inch in GK , now they just stop playing. Regarding military ; they are just watching my empire which have NOTHING as military while they own all wonders ( chinese are my so close neighbour , they have built all militaristic wonders, but they do not ever think to conquer me ).

It's like a SIM, building game for me atm. I don't have any will to build army or fear to be conquered...

 

[Bad Wolf]

What can I do to keep a religion against a 5 piety ethopia sending 3 missionaries every 10 turns?

Early on you can't really beat Ethiopia at religion, unless you're the Celts. If you start next to Ethiopia you might consider just letting them get a religion and spread it to you - they'll like you for sharing their religion.

And you really only need one or two policies from Piety to be competetive in the religion game. (Organized Religion is the obvious one, and Mandate of Heaven doesn't hurt either.)

 

[Mrdarklight]

One thing I noticed that I don't like about religion now: I tried to buy a Great Prophet and it wouldn't let me. There was no option. This kind of sucks for Sweden, since buying GPs with faith was a good way to get 90 influence with a CS.

 

[VainoValkea]

One thing I noticed that I don't like about religion now: I tried to buy a Great Prophet and it wouldn't let me. There was no option. This kind of sucks for Sweden, since buying GPs with faith was a good way to get 90 influence with a CS.

Doesn't that option only appear in the Industrial Era?

 

[Polisurgist]

Doesn't that option only appear in the Industrial Era?

Yes, in general the "Buy Great Person" effects of social policies only happen in industrial. Prior to that, you can still save up faith for a GP.

 

[Yzman]

It seems silly to me to be complaining about difficulty but saying you play on the 2nd hardest difficulty.

Can't do what you want to do in game?

MOVE DOWN ON DIFFICULTY.

I swear people complain about everything when a game comes out.

 

[PhilBowles]

The AI has made this game almost completely unenjoyable for me. I am a regular immortal player, with dips in deity when immortal became too easy in G&K.

What I've noticed is the AI's early game has become to incredibly blown out of proportion by the new gold changes that the game is just stale. On top of that, religion has become a joke to try to compete with. Computers fill piety and spam missionaries like never before. And don't get me started on wonders. My last game, an AI completed petra on turn 67. That would have been an absurdity even on diety in G&K.

This expansion looked amazing on paper, and I was so excited to play it... until I actually did.

-Tourism is binary, boring, slow, and terrible

-Classical wonders unattainable on Immortal+ unless by chance/miracle

-Religion competition impossible without filling out an entire policy tree due to the nature of religious civs like Ethiopia who will crush you without piety bonuses.

You're basically left with science, which has been slowed way down and nerfed with a city tax of 5% and a slower Human start (no gold), and domination, which has been made not more difficult but merely more frustrating with the hassle of funding even a small army.

Am I missing something?

The difficulty has increased, and that's described as intentional by the designers - they've said that they consider they're doing something right if players are forced to go down a level (as I have been, to Emperor). I agree with that approach.

- I agree that tourism is poorly-implemented, but it can still be immersive to play the tourism game.

- Go capture them then, or play on smaller maps. On the larger maps most Wonders always were hard to get on Immortal - you could rely on the Oracle and the Mausoleum, and if you really wanted it the Lighthouse on Pangea maps, but otherwise you were stuck. I've noticed Petra going more quickly as well, but that may just be a greater number of desert starts among AIs (although it is arguably more powerful than it was when voted one of the best Wonders in G&K).

- Then let it spread to you. Any religion is better than no religion, and brings diplo bonuses and potentially delegates if you share another civ's. Think less in a G&K mindset. Besides, Tithe is now the single most important Founder belief and the one that's never, ever taken by the AI, so even getting late religion is fairly strong.

- Why do you consider diplo victory unattainable on Immortal? Gold limitation is less of a cap on domination than happiness limitation in my experience of Assyria. You're no more locked out of science by going wide than you were locked out of culture going wide in G&K or vanilla - the extra scientist specialists more than make up for the beaker hit. In any case favoured science strategies with Babylon and Korea in G&K were to play tall.

 

[B.Baloo]

I do understand the OP's sentiments, but for my playstyle at least, I've found BNW to be a bit easier than G&K. I used to have to work my tail off to make sure my science and econ were well enough established to not fall behind in that first war on emperor. now I actually feel pretty comfortable experimenting with stuff. I've only played deity so far as Venice, but I was able to manage that pretty well.

Anyway, tips for the OP: you might want to adjust your settings. My first immortal game left a bad taste in my mouth as well. But it's been significantly more interesting (and predictable) with ancient ruins turned off. When you think about it, this should get rid of those fluke Petra-by-turn-whatever games. When the AI starts with a scout and you have none, you'll be LUCKY to pop 2 ruins. It's much more likely you'll get none or end up with a useless map. And with the AI's starting tech bonuses, there's also an increased chance that they'll not only get a tech, but get a second level tech. That's how they end up weirdly ahead in some games.

I've also been playing with raging barbs (more a personal choice to force me to remember my army) and an extra civ or two over the usual number. The latter tends to stir up a bit of that aggression that's lacking in the expansion. Anyway, I've done Arabia and Morocco games this way, and it's struck a nice balance between too easy and too rote. Picked up Petra in both as well. Give it a try and report back.

 

[Ryoga]

I have the same problem of the original poster except for me it's Emperor.

And many here don't seem to understand the problem. The game didn't actually become more "difficult" it has just become harder to build wonders and compete against missionary spammers.

You can tell him to try Emperor, but the result would just be that yes he'd be able to build wonders again and then he'd have a pretty boring game because he's used to a way stronger AI.

That's what happened to me when I moved from Emperor to King.

 

[Emperor Giulio]

I have the same problem of the original poster except for me it's Emperor.

And many here don't seem to understand the problem. The game didn't actually become more "difficult" it has just become harder to build wonders and compete against missionary spammers.

You can tell him to try Emperor, but the result would just be that yes he'd be able to build wonders again and then he'd have a pretty boring game because he's used to a way stronger AI.

That's what happened to me when I moved from Emperor to King.

I'm in the middle of a King game, and I just capped Japan, who I figured was going to DOW on somebody. However, they spent all of their time building wonders, while I built up a powerful force. IDK why they would do that, seem kind of counter-intuitive to their intended style of playing. Also, Korea dedicated most of it's resources to raising an army of missionaries; I just took their capital too. England declared war on Korea, making it a Poland 1939 type of situation. However, I took most of it by a long shot. So much so, that I declared war on England too, to wipe out it's army.

Pre-BWN, I was always behind in military, even if I made it my priority (I would win though, by the virtue of the AI mismanaging troops). But now, judging from my last Pointiest Sticks rating, I had more than double the troops of my closest rival.

 

[Liegence]

In G+K I could always count on my neighbor to attempt some feeble classical era war against my Civ to which my response was universally to upgrade four archers to CBs and dominate them without warmonger penalty costs. That made Emperor on G+K much easier. Now, the AI builds up in the Classical and Medieval eras and wars in the Renaissance (typically, I have found, against other AI's). I do think this makes the AI more competitive. It's as if the devs realized the AI sucks at war. Even if I have just a scout, warrior and archer on the field but 1000g in the bank I can defend myself on Emperor 99% of the time.

So I do feel that the AI is better off just focusing on development; a surprise attack from a hostile warmonger on turn 42 would be nice every now and then . Ahhh, reminiscing.

 

[Helmling]

I can see where the OP is coming from. I've been playing since Civ1 and the GL is always--ALWAYS!--my favorite wonder. But ever since G&K, the AI really prioritizes it so it's impossible to get on Deity.

I'm actually such a wonder-monger that I find it really hard to get all the wonders I want on Emperor.

Like huptiel said, no game can entertain you forever...and maybe that's a good thing. Civ has sucked enough of my life away as is. If I were you, I'd be grateful to see its appeal completely wane.

 

[Helmling]

try playing online, then everyone is on an equal playing field

Oh yeah, that's like saying, "Would you like some crack to go with your meth?"

 

[Liegence]

Just finished an Emperor zulu game were I basically got every Wonder (limited by policy selection, of course). That included GL, Hanging Gardens and Chichen It a which are all AI favs. Was not able to get Alhambra, though. That for me is the impossible wonder.

 

[stii]

I'm trying to remember when it was easy to get ancient/classical wonders on Immortal. Certainly not any time I ever played it.

The ones the AI hates.

Oracle is the obvious one. You can get in even on deity almost 100%.