Facism

[Ecco]

Ye.
I downloaded the patch for MGE, 1.3 methinks, and some changes did appear in the game.
1) some new tech were added. (ok)
2) some new units added (fine)
3) some tech changed (well...)
4) no fundamentalism (?)
5) facism (?)
6) units look different (ok, except the enginneers - they look like ****)

So my 2 questions are:

1) is this not ****ing the game up?
2) is everyone allright with these changes?

ok then

ecco

 

[CornMaster]

You must have downloaded the Facist patch for MGE. It changes the governments and techs....

Your probably going to have to uninstall the patch and see if that puts it back to normal, and then get the right patch. If that doesn't work then uninstall and reinstall Civ 2 and get the right patch.

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[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

It's a matter of taste, Ecco. I have it installed right now, and it added new life to the basic game for me. The designer(Steve Strayer) wanted a more historically accurate game, and it is with the patch. Fundementalism makes conquest way to easy anyway, so I don't miss it. Plus I think the unit Gifs are better then the basic game ones. Corn, you only have to change a few files to remove the patch, not reinstall the game.

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[Az]

Well I think the bad thing with this patch is that you can't play with many people since they don't have, can you?

Oh and I find that fundy is waaaay too unrealistic!

 

[gjts00]

I don't see why Fascism wasn't added to the list of governments earlier on.

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[Archbob]

I play regular game, but fundy is too unrealistic of a government.

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[PinkyGen]

Originally posted by gjts00:
I don't see why Fascism wasn't added to the list of governments earlier on.

I think the original concept, which is pretty weak, is that Fascism is like a dictatorship, so that fascism is really depotism. However, I think it needs to its own government, maybe it can take fundementalisms place in Civ III.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Then again, the name of the game is Civilization, so an even better course would be to eliminate such uncivilized governments as Fascism, Fundamentalism, and Communism. Despotism is fine for primitive govs, then Monarchy, then the Early Republic, the Republican Monarchy, the Democratic Republic, then as futuristic gov, the Cyber-Democracy.

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[CornMaster]

Originally posted by FearlessLeader2:
Then again, the name of the game is Civilization, so an even better course would be to eliminate such uncivilized governments as Fascism, Fundamentalism, and Communism.

How can you eliminate Fascism, and Cummunism!!! These governments have shaped the 20th century. Did you see the amazing things that Hitler did in Germany after WWI. He took a war battered country and made it a mojor world power in about 10 years. (Disclamier: I don't agree with his ideals/methods [of killing the Jews I mean] and I have nothing against any peoples of the world. I'm not promoting Nazism.) I'm mearly saying that Facsim has major power, if use correctly.

Now don't tell me Communism is an uncivilized government type because:
1) Communism is an economic model, not a government.
2) Communism beleives in equality for all the people of the nation. Not the ones who can screw you the best, as in capitialism.
3) You can have a Democratic Communist nation. Democratic governments means the people can vote for the government officals. Communism means that the government controls the economy. So if you don't like where the government is going with the economy, then you can vote them out. This.......I feel is the best government/economic model you can get!!
4) One of the main points of Communism is that Capitalism will destroy itself and then the world will have to convert to Communism. (I know this hasn't happened yet....but I feel it will.)

Anyway.......this kind of discussion is why there should be both Government models and economic models in Civ 3, the you could mix and match for the best results depending on your situation.

Anyway.....enough ranting.



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[DA_Champion]

Cornmaster, about your communism promotion.

In theory, theory and practice are the same.

In practice, theory and and practice are miles apart.

Now, the goverments/economic models should work like they do in practice and not like they do in theory, right?

 

[vladmir_illych_lenin]

Corn, I think FearlessLeader was just joking.

But I agree with Da Champion. Think about it. The People's Republic of CHINA!

[This message has been edited by vladmir_illych_lenin (edited April 13, 2001).]

 

[CornMaster]

Am I missing something?

I don't understand what DA or VLAD is saying.

Of course pratice and theory are different. That's why it's called a Theory. When you mix in the human aspect, you get the Practice. Which, as you stated, often differs from what is Theorized. But to say that Commuism is uncivilized.....that's just wrong. It is one of the most fair minded economic models ever.

Just because one dictator wanted full control of everything and decided to call it Communism doesn't mean that Communism is bad. Dictatorships are bad (well, bad Dictators make it bad.)

Doh...I got a call and lost my train of thought...oh well.

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[vladmir_illych_lenin]

I said I agreed with Da that practice and theory are different.

Communism is a good idea, but only works with small, generous populations.

 

[DA_Champion]

Communism in history.

Stalin, lenin, mao, castro, allende , and the kmher rouge, north korea, vietnam.

Communism is uncivilized 100% of the time with many cases and under different circumstances.

These are the facts. When goverment says only the whole people can have property, and the people agree...

The goverment takes absolute power.

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. - forgot the name.

 

[vladmir_illych_lenin]

Nonononononooo... Communism is a modern government and is civilized! Actually, Da, what is your definition of a "Civilized Government"?

 

[Ecco]

I think that a person knows precisely **** about communism unless he's lived in it. I recently watched ENEMY AT THE GATES, which was supposed to be a good movie, to my despair it was not. And the main reason for it was that the americans and the english and even zee germanz don't get the main idea. Sure, they tried to show what this ideology meant to common people, and in some cases they did quite well (like the fact that screwed generals were shot, how people were interogated, the lack of human life value, so on and so on...) but the movie still missed the big picture and seemed a little funny to me.
But, ah, communism is a thing of the modern world, let us not forget all the things that it accomplished, if we forget the price.


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[DA_Champion]

Ill pick a country im not living in as an example of a civilized goverment from whast i know.

Australia.

An example fo what not to do, nortk korea.

As for not knowing about commuinism because i didnt live in it, well the 20 million dead in mao's great leap backward speak loud and clear.

Are you a social democrat? well if you are i dont see why you are defending communism.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Dear oh dear. From a discussion about the fascist patch to a heated exchange on political ideology, and who is entitled to comment about what. Hmm.
Replacing Fundy with Fascy really has no detrimental effect, and indeed the patch adds in some nice units.

With the argument on whether Communism is civilized or not, we must remember that many features of the game are "uncivilized", such as the aggressive militaristic civilizations( not naming any names*cough* "Zulus!")
It all depends on what we regard as civilized, which is effected by our own experiences and beliefs et al.

I agree with Meneer Cornmaster when he labels Communism as one of the fairest theories or models about. My own politics are my own and will stay that way, but if you do not like a particular government type, just change its name in the rules files et al.

Personally, i would like to see some more government types- anyone have any ideas?
Seeing that under the Leninist theory of the dictatorship of the proletariat ( see Gosudarstvo i revolutsiya), there is an intermediate stage before "true" communism, perhaps there could be a "socialist" goverment ( ordinary communism) and the real deal ( bonues on happiness, production and trade)
Maybe fascism or a varaint could become "Military Dictatorship", a modern beefed up version of despotism. Finally, democracy needs a bit of change in terms of war making abilities. For example, the US can maintain 12 CVBGs, overseas troops, and many air units and still remain the worlds biggest democracy/republic. Unhappiness should occur when heavy casualties happen, or a real protracted stalemate war.

That is all.I commend myself to you fine people.

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Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you.
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[Simon Darkshade]

N.B: The remark about Zulus was only for those in the game, what with their silly habit of creating billion of crap units and galavanting about the map like a bunch of inebriated zebras.

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Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you.
- N.S.Khrushchev

 

[Ecco]

No, fellow comrades, i am neither a commy nor a socialdemocrat. My remark was mostly aimed at the movie i spoke about earlier, since it really pissed me off.
The political situation of Civ2 is not very thourough, i think that AlphaCentauri did a better job at that, though i also like the fact that you have a government name, and you know how this type of governing worked in history.
Communism is a nice deal for poor people, and a nice deal for idealists, perhaps not quite humanistic, but neither is democracy (let us not forget 1929).


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"Anyone can win, unless there happens to be another entry."
- George Ade